It’s kind high carbon combines with high chromium, it has more coarse carbide than most stainless in similar range
Which would you pick
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I didn't find SKD11 all that difficult to sharpen. Kinda similar to Ginsanko.
Yeah, definitely not quite the same sharpening feel as AEBL with its baby little Cr carbides.
I hate it, on the positive side very bity
I mean, it's harder to sharpen compared to some common materials. It's still much easier compared to materials like M390, S110V, or ZDP189.
When using SHAPTON sharpening stones to sharpen SKD11 material, it takes more time compared to AUS10 and VG10 154CM.
But when I use diamond stones to sharpen them, it becomes much easier. LOL
Interesting.
Makes me wonder whether the example I had was mislabelled.
Also, I guess it is a few years since I sharpened SLD, so I could he misremebering how it sharpens.
Back to the OP's Qn:
It would be helpful if you tell us what you are looking for in a knife.
It would be helpful if you tell us what you are looking for in a knife.
Jovidah
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I guess 2 issues. One is that for some reason it just kept giving me accordeon cuts regardless of cutting style ( so even when pushcutting), even after using it for a while. Probably has to do with some interplay between my body size, board height, and the angle of the profile. It's hard to put a finger on it since I never really had this issue with other knives of the same height (normally I like low blade height knives).
Second issue is that it has a bit of a delicate almost springy feel to it, probably as a result of the thin grind with sanmai construction. It might not be delicate, but it does have a delicate cutting feedback, which I disliked...especially since I had other thinly ground monosteel knives that went through hard root veg just as well, but had a more rock solid feedback to them.
I also prefer knives that have more distal taper to them that starts earlier in the knife.
What I got instead...well I have a bunch of knives here that are all quite different that I all prefer. So I prefer my Robert Herder stuff, I prefer my Ashi ginga stuff, I prefer my Masamoto KS (quite similar to Ginga actually)...heck I even preferred my old school cheap Carbonexts just from a practical perspective. But none of that may apply to you. Plenty of people prefer a Yoshi over those knives.
Because the profile is utterly unsuitable for rockchoppping. It's probably one of the worst Japanese gyutos for rockchopping I've ever used (most of it will do it just fine). So if you actually want to rockchop (which is a valid thing to do) I wouldn't get a Yoshi.
Get the Yoshikane SKD? It's like the Kono, but way cheaper.
https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/...ashiji-stainless-clad-gyuto-210mm-240mm-270mm
https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/...ashiji-stainless-clad-gyuto-210mm-240mm-270mm
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For me, the issue here is price, size, and profile. Yoshi tends to be flatter and less tall; the Togashi will run short with its Sakai sizing. I prefer Yoshi with that tradeoff. The Kono you list is made by Yoshi. I prefer the SKD steel, but not that much.
I’d encourage you to consider some of the knives on BST. Pretty sure someone has an Isamitsu for cheap. Definitely some things up to consider if you’re looking to increase bang for your buck.
DitmasPork
Senior Member
IMHO, the knives you’ve short listed are all over the map regarding steels, profile, etc.
Collecting kitchen knives is often more a long game than a sprint—personal tastes often change. Until you zero in on what your jam is, it might be prudent not to break the bank. One user’s fave knife is another’s drawer Queen.
Some to consider that’re not on your list:
Mazaki
Munetoshi
Yoshimi Kato
Explore Knife Japan if wanting rustic awesomeness
If you dig Yoshikane’s flat profile, there’s also Konosuke Sumiiro in SLD.
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+1 on Munetoshi, highly reactive though FYI if that's a concern.
Doesn’t rinsing your knife then drying it right away stop rusting?
Whats the better steals other than SKD?
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
Better for what? In which aspect?
Do you think we'd have this many steel types if you could easily pick a one-size fits all 'best'? Every steel is a tradeoff.
Do you think we'd have this many steel types if you could easily pick a one-size fits all 'best'? Every steel is a tradeoff.
I'm not a wiper, I just leave my knives until cleaning, so I can get rusting on the more reactive iron cladding on some knives like my Munetoshi bunka will rust just by looking at onions so definitely not for a commercial kitchen. If your already wiping in a home setting then I see no worries about rusting on carbons.
No such thing as best steel like others have said. I like white steel for easy sharpening to a razor like sharpness for vegetables/onions but not so much on meat where large carbide steel are better but I'm nit picking.
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I am new to this, so please be a little less abrupt. There is a lot to take in.
I am an amateur home chef who cooks chicken, steak, pork, vegetables (Onion, carrots, cabbage), and more. I slice cooked meat like Gyros and Brisket, etc. I don't work in a pro setting and don't cut bones.
My main focus is the steel that will get the sharpest and stay sharp for the longest.
I know that Edge retention is how long a knife will stay sharp. What metric does one use to measure how sharp a knife can get? I assume it is not Rockwell Hardness?
I have an excellent White 2 Ashi Suji for slicing.
I plan on getting a 240 Gyuto, ideally an Aogami Super as I have read they are super sharp, stay sharp and not too hard to maintain, compared to White.
I have my eye on this one. But then I read SKD is better than Carbon for edge retention. However, I cannot find a single comparison between Aogami and SKD, just White 1 or 2 vs SKD.
Hitohira Tanaka Kyuzo Blue #1 Migaki Gyuto
It seems everyone has their own opinion so it might just be getting one and seeing how I fair!
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
Sorry if it comes off a bit snarky... that isn't really my intention, but what I'm trying to get at is:
Every steel type is a compromise in attributes. Some will argue that some steels strike a better compromise than others, but there's always an inherent compromise being made.
And that's before even considering the element of cost.
It also helps to ask yourself why do I want X. Why are you looking for 'maximum edge retention' or 'maximum sharpness', and do you really need it. And what are you willling to sacrifice to get attribute X.
For that reason I always lean to ... not blowing up your budget on early knife purchases because you probably don't have a good feel for what you're really looking for. So you'd be better off splitting that budget into 2 entirely different knives (preferably something that'd sell easily if it's not your cup of tea) than to try and get 'the perfect knife'.
I'll just requote what I said earlier. This applies to steels as well. You have a conceptual problem in that you're trying to find an 'objective best', which does not exist. At most you can find a 'better at X', or 'better for preference Y'.
Every steel type is a compromise in attributes. Some will argue that some steels strike a better compromise than others, but there's always an inherent compromise being made.
And that's before even considering the element of cost.
It also helps to ask yourself why do I want X. Why are you looking for 'maximum edge retention' or 'maximum sharpness', and do you really need it. And what are you willling to sacrifice to get attribute X.
You can ask people a million times what they like or prefer but it's not incredibly useful for predicting what you will like. I know, figuring out those preferences is incredibly different when your experience is limited, and there often isn't a good substitute for trying something out for a while....
For that reason I always lean to ... not blowing up your budget on early knife purchases because you probably don't have a good feel for what you're really looking for. So you'd be better off splitting that budget into 2 entirely different knives (preferably something that'd sell easily if it's not your cup of tea) than to try and get 'the perfect knife'.
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
If you like Ashi I'd at least consider an Ashi stainless gyuto. Just keep in mind they run short and low (so you'd probably want to get at least a 240).
I think you're also putting a bit too much emphasis on picking steel type. Steel type doesn't really have a whole lot of impact on how a knife performs... only for how long. But there's other variables that have a bigger impact, like the grind (especially right behind the edge).
I think you're also putting a bit too much emphasis on picking steel type. Steel type doesn't really have a whole lot of impact on how a knife performs... only for how long. But there's other variables that have a bigger impact, like the grind (especially right behind the edge).
Serious question, if you are a home cook is edge retention really your priority?. With care even white will last in a home setting with a phew wipes on a stone for maintenance.
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To the issue of sharpness, I'd point out that it is not captured in a single number. Multiple factors contribute to our perception of sharpness: how thin is the blade, especially right behind the edge and overall? A really thin knife will still feel sharp even when the cutting edge dulls. Then there is the issue of toothiness vs. polish. Do you want perfect, glassy cuts of fish and vegetables? Use a high polish. But that same edge won't be great for your brisket. Compromises all around.
ETA - I love knives in all those steels. They have different characteristics. At the end of the day, steel type is only one factor. How rough are you on your knives? Do you have a softer, sturdier knife around for tougher work?
ETA - I love knives in all those steels. They have different characteristics. At the end of the day, steel type is only one factor. How rough are you on your knives? Do you have a softer, sturdier knife around for tougher work?
Don't stress the steel. Find a knife you like and then learn the steel through your use. It will tell you what it needs.
Grind, profile, even looks in the beginning all trump steel unless there is a specific need.
Grind, profile, even looks in the beginning all trump steel unless there is a specific need.
When you talk about ease of maintenance, do you mean keeping the knife at high performance or keeping it from rusting?
The TxK will be a wonderful cutter out of the box, but IMO if you’re looking for easier maintenance than your Ashi, it’s not the best option. B1 core steel aside, the iron cladding is a lot more reactive than your white 2 monosteel and you will need to keep an eye on it.
Like @Jovidah and @HumbleHomeCook said, I think you’re giving too much emphasis to the steel.
How long a knife can maintain the perception of sharpness when cutting through food (which is ultimately the only important way to gauge kitchen knife sharpness) has more to do the geometry of the blade than whether it’s made out of aogami 1 or shirogami 2. You can have knives that are dull at the apex but paradoxically cut better than knives that are sharp at the apex. This does make it harder to shop for a knife because assessing the grind is a more subtle task than simply filtering out knives by steel.
Another factor is that a poorly sharpened knife (say, not deburred properly) is going to cut poorly — and high edge retention steels used in J-knives (say, HAP40 or ZDP189) are going to be more difficult to sharpen, so once it does dull, you’re going to have a harder time bringing the edge back.
The Yoshikane SKD recommended several times is a good option for an easy-to-buy, low maintenance knife with a fantastically performing grind. You should be able to find one for around $250 if you watch Home Butcher’s sales (or BST) closely.
It’s not the most exciting knife, but it does make sense as a stepping stone to figure out your preferences.
You might also look for a Myojin SG2 or Kagekiyo ginsan (sharpened by Myojin). Or a Shibata (which does come in stainless clad AS).
Too many shadows, whispering voices
Faces on posters, too many choices
If? When? Why? What?
How much have you got?
Have you got it? Do you get it?
If so, how often?
Which do you choose
a hard or soft option?
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If I can only have one, I would take a softer option.
All said above is true, that said between yoshikane skd or white 2, skd is better.
Thanks for all the help. I ended up getting a Hitorhira Tanaka Kyuzo Blue 240mm Gyuto.
As well as a
Isamitsu White #1 195mm Santoku
These will match my 170mm Silver #3 Cleaver and Ashi Hamono 270 Suji nicely I feel.
I just need a petty
As well as a
Isamitsu White #1 195mm Santoku
These will match my 170mm Silver #3 Cleaver and Ashi Hamono 270 Suji nicely I feel.
I just need a petty
Excellent choices.Thanks for all the help. I ended up getting a Hitorhira Tanaka Kyuzo Blue 240mm Gyuto.
As well as a
Isamitsu White #1 195mm Santoku
These will match my 170mm Silver #3 Cleaver and Ashi Hamono 270 Suji nicely I feel.
I just need a petty
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