Motion of the Ocean

[bermuda_chub]

OK, every third YouTube video that I’ve watched this month has been about knife sharpening and, while a few have been very helpful, in sum they’ve left my head spinning. I’ve always used a Norton 3 Stone oil system for my monthly sharpenings, but I am transitioning to a Naniwa diamond stone progression: 600, 1000, 3000. In the past I’ve sent the knives to professional sharpeners for chips and tips, but I’d like to tackle those repairs myself, as well as begin to learn how to polish. I’ve always used a slow and steady sweeping technique, hilt to tip, gentle pressure. Set the angle, 10x each side on medium then fine, strop and on to the next knife. My three questions of the moment are:

1) should I abandon/supplement the sweeping pass for the frenetic herky-jerky style that I see many YouTube sharpeners use (see, eg, the Burrfection videos)?

2) when repairing small but visible chips, what angle should I aim for to grind the blade to the point where the chip disappears and it is ready for a new bevel?

3) is it worth investing in a 6000 grit stone from the outset to start polishing correctly, and, if so, which one?

Thanks very much in advance for the help. I should note that I’m sharpening a wide variety of steels. Cheers!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I believe what you're describing is what I affectionately call "grandpa style" Pulling the knife toward you in an arc and sorta tossing out your elbow as you go. It's how I sharpened for many, many years, also a lot on Nortons. It's a style more suited for knives with more upswept tips like hunting knives, German chefs knives and such.

Like you, when I got serious about Japanese knives and transitioned to different stones, I explored a new style: The back-and-forth "scrub" style that is so commonly demonstrated. At first it felt very odd and awkward. But over time it comes to you. Now I even swap hands but I didn't try that until much later.

The scrub technique is superior. While it may not seem so at first, you actually have more control and can have more precise influence (finger placement on the blade, concentrated work, etc.). I find it is also faster.

Remember, speed comes through repetition, not forcing things so go slow and just get used to the new motor function feelings. Focus on angle and consistency, use a marker on the edge to give you a visual of what is happening.

Don't count strokes. It takes what it takes. The only thing I make sure to be conscious of is after you work one side, the opposite side will seemingly raise a burr almost immediately. It hasn't. It's just the burr flipping over. So I do make sure I do a couple of "throw away" passes and then focus on what I'm doing.

For chip removal, you can kick up to something like 45ish degrees. Some folks also like to "bread knife" the edge which is just a way of saying rub the edge on the stone like you're trying to slice it in half.

I don't do polishing so I'll stay out of that.

Just say no to Burrfection! I know he's prevalent when searching YouTube but that doesn't make him good. He gives out some advice that is consistent with reputable sharpeners but he also gives out a lot of advice that I find questionable at best. He's a salesman.

Japanese Knife Imports, SHARP Knife Shop, Big Brown Bear, and others are great resources. People will chime in with more recommendations.

 

[esoo]

You have to use what works for you.

I cannot do the scrub style as @HumbleHomeCook calls it. My angle varies as I change directions and I cannot get a good edge from it. I've also purchased used knives that had their tips screwed by scrub technique (what should've been a curve was turned into two straight lines)

I do the sweeping style. I also count passes and flip routinely so a burr is not something I worry about. My edges get sharp enough for my kitchen (I can cut paper towel - not as well as some, but I use that as my judge)

That said, when I've tried to polish (which I've only done minimally) I've switched to the scrub technique as it seems to work better with the whole blade touching.

 

[Jovidah]

The main question to ask yourself is "are you satisfied with the results you are getting". If it works for you it works for you.

Like others said I wouldn't use Burrfection as a reference; sometimes he gets thigns right but often he doesn't so he's a very unreliable source.

I actually prefer sweeping as well since it gives me better more consistent results, and as a bonus I also seem to have less problems with burrs.

When it comes to repairs it's worth keeping in mind that it's not just about grinding away the chip but also restoring geometry. By reducing height you'll end up in a thicker part of the blade, which will significantly reduce performance. So you'll have to thin it down again.

Personally I'm not really into polishing so others can hopefully help you there. I pretty lost all interest in polishing after I realized that pretty mirror finishes just make the blades more sticky to ingredients.

 

[bermuda_chub]

These are all incredibly helpful. Relieved that I’m not losing my mind: there is a real legitimate division of techniques in sharpening. You can be a boxer or a brawler, but you can win either way.

 

[Ruso]

These are all incredibly helpful. Relieved that I’m not losing my mind: there is a real legitimate division of techniques in sharpening. You can be a boxer or a brawler, but you can win either way.

I use both techniques. As long the angle control is there, it’s almost like it does not matter.
Angle control can be a b*tch though.

 

[mengwong]

Oh, and add pressure.

 

[mengwong]

For chip removal, you can kick up to something like 45ish degrees. Some folks also like to "bread knife" the edge which is just a way of saying rub the edge on the stone like you're trying to slice it in half.

More detail:

You could 'breadknife' it; sawing into the stone at 90 degrees with pressure to remove the chips very quickly and get to a profile matching the sketch you did, and then start on thinning. Or you can 'sharpen' it into shape, with the knife at an angle, and using a more normal sharpening motion. I tend to prefer the latter as it's a slightly more delicate operation though I don't do it at the kind of angle you'd normally sharpen at, more like 45 degrees. This makes it quicker to get the chips removed, but still means you'll need to do some thinning after, though not as much as if you breadknifed. In short - you can pick wherever along the angle spectrum you want. You could, I suppose, do the thinning simultaneously; with a 'zero-bevel' - laid flat against the stone - and then build the edge and convexity in after, but it strikes me as a slightly odd way of doing repair work.

 

[Desert Rat]

I wouldn't abandon the sweeping style. There is no reason you can't combine the techniques and go back and forth without lifting the knife on the back stroke. That is the way I do it, usually. On bigger knives I might break them up into two sections but not into small sections as in the Japanese style.

I sharpen a lot of blades with belly to them, hunting, skinning, butcher knives ect, and a sweeping stroke is required.

 

[esoo]

I just also noticed that the OP is going with the Naniwa Diamond 3000. I do have this stone. It cuts well, but don't expect miracle speed out of it. A good scrubby with take off the swarf that accumulates so you don't need to use the nagura that comes with it that often. Also of note it that I find it quite a bit finer than a Shapton Glass 3000.

 

[bermuda_chub]

I just also noticed that the OP is going with the Naniwa Diamond 3000. I do have this stone. It cuts well, but don't expect miracle speed out of it. A good scrubby with take off the swarf that accumulates so you don't need to use the nagura that comes with it that often. Also of note it that I find it quite a bit finer than a Shapton Glass 3000.

Agree completely. Just took the set for a test drive with a couple of old Shun Ken Onions from the basement closet. Used the technique @HumbleHomeCook suggested and the results were pretty incredible: The Mummy Resurrected. Going to prep dinner with them for old times sake.

There is definitely room for both techniques, but it was much easier to raise a burr with the scrubbing stroke.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Agree completely. Just took the set for a test drive with a couple of old Shun Ken Onions from the basement closet. Used the technique @HumbleHomeCook suggested and the results were pretty incredible: The Mummy Resurrected. Going to prep dinner with them for old times sake.

There is definitely room for both techniques, but it was much easier to raise a burr with the frenetic stroke.

For sure, as I said to you another message and others have said here, there's a lot room for a lot of different techniques. Many of us take different paths to the same destination and that's all fine. I use all kinds of different motions, including the sweeping style, depending on the knife and task. But as a core technique, I use the scrubbing style for the bulk of the sharpening work needed.

 

[Vertigo]

I only "scrub" if I'm trying to move a lot of metal, like thinning or fixing a coworker's busted ass German. Always switch to the sweeping motions while finishing up, because it evens out any segmented inconsistencies on the edge road. I started with the scrub, I think a lot of those early '09-'12 videos were segmented scrubbing. But sweeping makes more sense to me, feels more natural, and is a *way* faster for just getting an edge back to fighting shape. As always, YMMV and what works for one moron may not work for everyone else.

 

[stringer]

I scrub at an angle slightly below my desired apex angle. Basically, scrubbing = thinning for me. Apex work/microbevels I sweep.

 

[MowgFace]

Scrubber!

I use sweeping strokes during burr removal.