The single-bevel macro-bevel micro-bevel

[mengwong]

My arm hurts.

The thought of putting a microbevel on my yanagibas, usubas, etc now reduces me to gibbering fear.

I think: every single high-angle stroke I use to set a microbevel now, is going to cost me a hundredfold the next time I want to reset the kireha.

 

[mengwong]

It'll be a long process to get it back to a zero grind, trust me I've learned this the hard way.

 

[mengwong]

bite the bullet and take it down to a nearly zero bevel on a coarse stone

took me quite a while on coarse stones to remove

Burrs tend to appear long before the very edge has been reached.

getting to near 0 grind on 400 grit might literally take hours

This is the way.

Background: I picked up a basic Tojiro Shirogami Yanagiba 240mm (F-908). It came with a sandblasted finish that, against fish, made sashimi swarf. So I spent some time polishing that down, and reset the microbevel back to 0, but even with a SG220 and JKI 1000 diamond, it took 3, maybe 4 hours.

And that is how I spent my National Knife Day!

My back hurts, too.

 

[Se1ryu]

It is easy to get rid of micro bevel on a single bevel knives like yanagiba. Just use coarse stone and move up your grit. Just make sure you put your thumb and pressure near the cutting edge

 

[Benuser]

It is easy to get rid of micro bevel on a single bevel knives like yanagiba. Just use coarse stone and move up your grit. Just make sure you put your thumb and pressure near the cutting edge

It's my understanding not all users favour applying coarse stones up to the very edge.

 

[Se1ryu]

It's my understanding not all users favour applying coarse stones up to the very edge.

Yes, don't use 120 or something. I use 400 grit before to get rid micro bevel on my Yanagiba (Aoniko). It's not a problem at all. You can go lower if you want to but do less pass on the stone. Also pressure and angle is important.

You are right, Everyone has different techniques and ways that work for them. My self I never use coarse diamond plate for sharpening or thinning my knives, maybe some people do like diamond plate. Just do whatever works for yourself

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I had a Kai Seki Maguro Deba with a killer edge on it, very fine, no microbevel, razor sharp. My wife’s mother came to stay with us for a bit and she used it on a big fish, I think it was a trevaly. Debas are practically made for fish. Chopped it up nice and good. The knife got several little chips up and down it. She also said that it wasn’t very sharp. That part hurt. Then I started working it on my DMT Xtra Coarse….and that was when I realized the mountain of work that layed ahead. That was crazy. I leave it with a either that DMT or a 400 grit finish from then on.

I don’t suppose a yanagi would be used to chop through bones. Hopefully a microbevel or removing that rough section is the worst of it. A lot of mass production knives have a concave bevel from the factory so getting that perfectly straight is a plus.

 

[Ochazuke]

I also have settled in to beta-togi for my sashimi bocho. It just makes life easier. I still microbevel my knives that get used for harder tasks.

Since I only use my sashimi bocho to slice neta or sashimi, it's usually no problem for me.

Similar to @Se1ryu I stopped using diamond plate on knives. It's fast, but in use the knives get more chippy and have less edge retention.

In the end, the only way to avoid hours of work is just with regular maintenance.

 

[Greasylake]

I only microbevel deba because the edge stability helps with bone contact, but even then I only microbevel on my finishing stone and try to make it as small as possible. It makes touch ups easy because you can just do a few swipes on the microbevel and you're good to go. Only do it a few times though so you don't make it too big and have to go through the trouble of taking it out. Yanagiba I generally don't microbevel. You may have to be a little more careful with making sure you remove pin bones before skinning a fillet and making sure you got all the scales off before cutting into sections and things, but it's worth it for the easier sharpening imo. The worst experience I had was with a big 330mm yanagiba I got used. Looked like the previous owner had sharpened it only at a higher angle then sent it off for serious thinning, which didn't even reset the bevel. That was just a horrible experience, and in the end I just blended it into a convex edge so that you could at least hit the edge and sharpen normally with finger pressure adjustments. Never again, that was the least fun I've had with a knife

 

[noj]

My single bevel knife wasn't able to support an edge without a microbevel. At least not without a visible mess of micro-chips at the edge. Not only that, it needed more of a microbevel that I would have guessed to get to a stable edge (without the micro-chips). It's possible it's due to the thinner and wider blade, or bad steel, I don't know. The whole thing was so exhausting, I haven't even used the knife, so I can't comment yet on re-sharpening. Whenever I should use it, I just think about it for a second, and grab my petty;-) Details on this thread:

www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/single-bevel-sharpening.58156/

 

[mengwong]

Reposting for relevance

 

[ch_br]

My arm hurts.

The thought of putting a microbevel on my yanagibas, usubas, etc now reduces me to gibbering fear.

I think: every single high-angle stroke I use to set a microbevel now, is going to cost me a hundredfold the next time I want to reset the kireha.

You are a braver man than me!

This is why I don't even mess with perfecting it.

While I COMPLETELY understand and respect the pursuit of it...

Personally I don't want to initiate and habits that ever make my knife using or maintenance practices to feel JOB-ish.

Much respect to all of you who do these single bevel deep endeavors though - it is impressive!

 

[Pie]

After a reread of @noj ’s saga, as well as some very novice-level honbazuke, I completely agree with your assessment @mengwong.

Liiiiitle bit too coarse and one swipe adds hours of work.

I turned the massive microbevel on my honesuki into a nice chubby convex and called it a day. I claim it to eat bone contact for breakfast, but really just don’t want to take off 2x20x150 mm of steel off by hand.

 

[mengwong]

I turned the massive microbevel on my honesuki into a nice chubby convex and called it a day.

Me too! I have a Tojiro F-803 which I ended up convexing to something like a 40 degree edge which, guess what, works just fine on poultry tendons… there’s no need to go any lower … I mean, if somebody orders chicken sashimi, I can always pull out my yanagiba.

 

[EShin]

My arm hurts.

The thought of putting a microbevel on my yanagibas, usubas, etc now reduces me to gibbering fear.

I think: every single high-angle stroke I use to set a microbevel now, is going to cost me a hundredfold the next time I want to reset the kireha.

Edge stability decreases extremely if the angle is below 25 degrees, which is why I would always use a microbevel on my yanagiba and usuba, but with just 1-3 strokes on the finest grit stone without any pressure. Almost invisible but makes a big difference, and costs me maybe one minute on a 1000 grit stone to reset.

With a deba, you obviously need to make a bigger second bevel or it’s not going to be suitable as a deba, too thin behind the edge.

 

[noj]

After a reread of @noj ’s saga, as well as some very novice-level honbazuke, I completely agree with your assessment @mengwong.

Liiiiitle bit too coarse and one swipe adds hours of work.

I turned the massive microbevel on my honesuki into a nice chubby convex and called it a day. I claim it to eat bone contact for breakfast, but really just don’t want to take off 2x20x150 mm of steel off by hand.

What's very novice-level?

 

[Pie]

What's very novice-level?

Like, never put a single bevel on a stone before novice. It’s eye opening, for sure.

On the same topic, guys should I get this down to a zero? Like, all the way down…? ohhh man I do not want to do this. Actually I kinda do but I’m terrified. The wife wants sushi so I believe my time has come.

Me too! I have a Tojiro F-803 which I ended up convexing to something like a 40 degree edge which, guess what, works just fine on poultry tendons… there’s no need to go any lower … I mean, if somebody orders chicken sashimi, I can always pull out my yanagiba.

Exactly! A little bit of axe geometry doesn’t hurt in this application.

 

[noj]

Like, never put a single bevel on a stone before novice. It’s eye opening, for sure.

On the same topic, guys should I get this down to a zero? Like, all the way down…? ohhh man I do not want to do this. Actually I kinda do but I’m terrified. The wife wants sushi so I believe my time has come.
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Exactly! A little bit of axe geometry doesn’t hurt in this application.

Seems a little rude. Even if that's where I was at the beginning, I thought I both learned and improved it. I spent about a year on this, on and off obviously. Mostly I was fixing the awful geometry so it was usable in the kitchen.

 

[Pie]

Seems a little rude. Even if that's where I was at the beginning, I thought I both learned and improved it. I spent about a year on this, on and off obviously. Mostly I was fixing the awful geometry so it was usable in the kitchen.

Oh no man, im referring to myself as never put a single bevel on a stone before! The novice honbazuke I was referring to was my own first try at it, which went well enough I suppose but many lessons were learned.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! Reading your story when it was first posted actually gave me the push to put my own yanagi under the knife (stone). It’ll be a train wreck, no doubt. I entirely respect your endeavour and results achieved.

I dislike judging the abilities of others, as I am no expert in any field in this hobby.

Please let me know if it was something else I said!

 

[noj]

Oops, and sorry I misinterpreted. Take care!