The End Game Knife

[Just a DK]

hell yea brother! Tudor FXD all the way.

I prefer to ask everyone around me what time is it non-stop. drives my wife nuts and she's offered watches / put clocks everywhere. Kept doing it cause I liked the human interaction.

Now she just says ask alexa.....

 

[TheDza]

It's also nice when you have a realization of what your upper purchase limit is. Personally I have no interest at all in buying knives more than $1k because then I would be hesitant to use them as tools. Anything more than $500 still gives me serious pause. Sure there are still some knives out there that I would like (Sh.han, Lucid, another eddworks) but these days it's more common than not for me to see a knife on BST that a year ago I wouldve jumped all over and now I don't even look at it

That said, we can't all be like @esoo and have BST on ignore. That is a higher plane of existence

 

[instantramen]

I recently got into watches which was an interesting experience coming from the kitchen knife world, and having gone through that whole mindset of collecting one in each category, pursuing an endgame, then filling in the gaps, buying/selling to see what I like etc. Eventually settled on a seiko alpinist which is easily a do-it-all watch for my personal needs -- not a Tudor price tag but very pricey for my budget. I made the conscious decision to decide this was my watch endgame for the stage of life I'm at, stop looking at other watches, and just enjoy the upgrade from my old fossil watch.

There's a lot of watch content that I think could easily apply to the knife world regarding endgame pieces and filling in collections. One thing from a watch video that I wish I'd heard earlier when putting together my chef knife collection is that preferences change over time, and your endgame at the start of your journey will likely be different than your endgame later on once you've tried a few knives and know what you like. In other words, the more you explore and deep-dive into the hobby, the less "endgame" really applies because it becomes an evolving concept.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

I prefer to ask everyone around me what time is it non-stop. drives my wife nuts and she's offered watches / put clocks everywhere. Kept doing it cause I liked the human interaction.

Sounds desperate

 

[Corradobrit1]

hell yea brother! Tudor FXD all the way.

And unbelievably accurate for a mechanical watch. I’m getting +0.5s per week.

 

[Jovidah]

I think watches are actually a really bad analogue to compare to knives since the utility benefit of a fancier watch is effectively 0 these days. They're essentially jewelry. Even the cheapest Casio - or your mobile phone - is unlikely to keep the time significantly worse than the most high end swiss gizmo.
I know this forum is all about 'deep diving the diminishing returns territory' but at least there are still returns when going up in price.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

end game right hurrrr

https://eatingtools.com/products/goldvein-by-kamon-gv-no-2

 

[TheDza]

I think watches are actually a really bad analogue to compare to knives since the utility benefit of a fancier watch is effectively 0 these days. They're essentially jewelry. Even the cheapest Casio - or your mobile phone - is unlikely to keep the time significantly worse than the most high end swiss gizmo.
I know this forum is all about 'deep diving the diminishing returns territory' but at least there are still returns when going up in price.

I mean can't you say the same about knives? Certainly there are subtle differences in steel, grind, heat treatment, fit and finish for more expensive knives but how much of a difference is there between a $200 knife vs $500, let alone $1k+?

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

And unbelievably accurate for a mechanical watch. I’m getting +0.5s per week.

I don't have a time checker but mine is super close.... but doesn't beat my GS spring drive. I know the spring drive is questionable for some more mechanical enthusiasts but to me it really hits that intersection of modern tech while preserving the mechanical nature

 

[Jovidah]

end game right hurrrr

https://eatingtools.com/products/goldvein-by-kamon-gv-no-2

The real endgame are the ensueing divorce proceedings when she finds out what it costs...

 

[Jovidah]

I mean can't you say the same about knives? Certainly there are subtle differences in steel, grind, heat treatment, fit and finish for more expensive knives but how much of a difference is there between a $200 knife vs $500, let alone $1k+?

I agree, which is why I don't own any 500+ knives, and the majority of my knives are significantly less than that. But at least in that range there are still performance differences and gains to be had. With watches I think you already hit that point at about 20 bucks...

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

I know this forum is all about 'deep diving the diminishing returns territory' but at least there are still returns when going up in price.

disagree. diminishing returns is still saying there are returns just less. I still think you see diminishing returns on knives as prices exceed...... $500 ish? usually I feel like that's where F&F really tightens up and the grinds are all really good.

even then I mean you can argue knife Japan has some crazy good knives at least per homechef and many others.
Edit 2: dammit. I mean humblehomechef . I did this last time too


so really you can start looking at some diminishing returns at around 200 or 300 even. I mean I think Japanese knives really output some great stuff like Sukenari with their Hap40. you can get Tetsujin at that range. so... I guess I convinced myself into saying maybe 200 to 500 depending on maker and what not.


Edit: I’m operating under the principle of 80% of function at the lowest cost possible and I am positing that it can be achieved by price 200 to 500 (approx). That last 20 is what you see as pricing goes up. Then you need to consider (artistry, materials, history, extra effort etc)

 

[TheDza]

I agree, which is why I don't own any 500+ knives, and the majority of my knives are significantly less than that. But at least in that range there are still performance differences and gains to be had. With watches I think you already hit that point at about 20 bucks...

some would say that number would be $0 because most of us carry a timekeeping device in our pockets at all times anyway

 

[ptolemy]

I think watches are actually a really bad analogue to compare to knives since the utility benefit of a fancier watch is effectively 0 these days. They're essentially jewelry. Even the cheapest Casio - or your mobile phone - is unlikely to keep the time significantly worse than the most high end swiss gizmo.
I know this forum is all about 'deep diving the diminishing returns territory' but at least there are still returns when going up in price.

i don't think it is, because if you go back 100-200 years, when most chefs used knives that no one here would usually dare to pickup unless they were at mother-in-law's kitchen, yet their food was probably as delicious as it is now...

one can apply this rationale to cars pretty much everything else unless that product provides s quantifiable difference and everyone who uses it are in agreement (i.e verified vs just buying the hope)

 

[mengwong]

The best end-game knife is the one you make yourself.

 

[Mariner]

I think within high-end knives, the only time somebody is going to tell you there's an end-game knife is when they also happen to have one to sell you.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I think within high-end knives, the only time somebody is going to tell you there's an end-game knife is when they also happen to have one to sell you.

GLWS

 

[Heckel7302]

Endgame is a mindset, it’s different for everyone. I made a curated list of makers that I wanted to have. I have acquired everything on that list. Endgame? Sort of. I don’t have the burning desire that I once had, but I still want to try other makers and have committed to one in, one out from this point on. So the number of knives in my collection shouldn’t change, but specific knives might.

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

Kept doing it cause I liked the human interaction.

Kept doing it because it's fun to annoy the wife.

 

[SharpestToolintheShed]

hell yea brother! Tudor FXD all the way.

My Cousin has one. Utterly gorgeous watch. In the end I could not justify multi thousand dollar wrist candy.

 

[Corradobrit1]

My Cousin has one. Utterly gorgeous watch. In the end I could not justify multi thousand dollar wrist candy.

Think if it as a bargain basement Rolex.

 

[Bodine]

I think it depends on how you define end game. For me it was just finding a great performing kitchen knife. I did that when I bought a Kochi, my first true J knife.
Now I have bought and sold a few, less than 5, but I still have achieved my end game. To me there is no holy grail, just a tool that performs well.

 

[SharpestToolintheShed]

Think if it as a bargain basement Rolex.

My cousin is big into Tudor and Omega. My brother loves his TAG Heuer and GShock ( the MRG variety). I just have a humble Tudor, Nomos, Stowa and MT-G.

I decided that knives are a cheaper hobby than collecting watches. An endgame level custom knife costs less than MT-G.

 

[aporigine]

And unbelievably accurate for a mechanical watch. I’m getting +0.5s per week.

That’s my criterion. 30 seconds per annum is about one part per million.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

My Cousin has one. Utterly gorgeous watch. In the end I could not justify multi thousand dollar wrist candy.

I get that. It is a luxury good. As mentioned by others a Casio or timex will do the job. Or your pocket watch (cellphone)

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

. I just have a humble Tudor, Nomos, Stowa and MT-G.

My man. Same here. Stowa and Tudor and nomos. I don’t care to jump into the 10k plus range just not worth it. Even then I think I’ve started hitting cap of how much I’d spend on a watch…… latest one I was eyeballing was the Cartier tank solo. But even then I’m hesitant to pull the trigger.

Edit: not that I judge or think people should or should not buy those higher range watches in just at my cap at this point of my life. And I’m deciding not to do that.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I get that. It is a luxury good. As mentioned by others a Casio or timex will do the job. Or your pocket watch (cellphone)

Having worn a wristwatch for 50 years I now feel nekkid without it, so the cellphone just ain’t gonna cut it.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Having worn a wristwatch for 50 years I now feel nekkid without it.

Same. I’m not at 50 years but even after like 8 years I hate not being able to just look at my wrist.

But my point was you don’t need a mechanical watch’ that costs buku dollars for a watch that keeps accurate time

If I had to sell it all and could only have a cheap watch I’d get a timex or gshock. Better than no watch at all

 

[Vertigo]

disagree. diminishing returns is still saying there are returns just less. I still think you see diminishing returns on knives as prices exceed...... $500 ish? usually I feel like that's where F&F really tightens up and the grinds are all really good.

even then I mean you can argue knife Japan has some crazy good knives at least per homechef and many others.

so really you can start looking at some diminishing returns at around 200 or 300 even. I mean I think Japanese knives really output some great stuff like Sukenari with their Hap40. you can get Tetsujin at that range. so... I guess I convinced myself into saying maybe 200 to 500 depending on maker and what not.


Edit: I’m operating under the principle of 80% of function at the lowest cost possible and I am positing that it can be achieved by price 200 to 500 (approx). That last 20 is what you see as pricing goes up. Then you need to consider (artistry, materials, history, extra effort etc)

This. I think knives have a pretty steep curve of diminishing returns once you get around $500, at that point you're almost certainly paying for brand / premium materials / ad copy / rarity, more than any sort of actual performance. I'll eventually drop current market value for another Murray Carter, but will do so knowing full well that the performance increase I see will be negligible relative to the price increase.

Unlike watches, the real ROI comes with actually improving as a user of the product. The better you are with using your knives, the more you'll get out of them.

 

[SharpestToolintheShed]

This. I think knives have a pretty steep curve of diminishing returns once you get around $500, at that point you're almost certainly paying for brand / premium materials / ad copy / rarity, more than any sort of actual performance. I'll eventually drop current market value for another Murray Carter, but will do so knowing full well that the performance increase I see will be negligible relative to the price increase.

Unlike watches, the real ROI comes with actually improving as a user of the product. The better you are with using your knives, the more you'll get out of them.

Given that when I’m at friends’ places, even a Victorinox is an upgrade from the standard dull crap most people have, even a basic $300 chefs knife is better than what most people have actually held.

I’m getting the custom Edd Works for my 50th birthday. I’d feel like I’m cheating myself if I got something inexpensive. My knives have gotten into the level of Veblen goods.