Sanding Belt Recs?

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cjmeik

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I picked up a kalamazoo 1x42 today to do some bulk sharpening and am wondering what the best grit sequence would be quickly handling mostly crappy knives. I was thinking something like 220, 400, then leather belt... but as of yet, I zero experience from which to speak.

For those of you with experience in this area, what grits and belt types do you like?

Thanks!
 
Hmm, I would say - be very careful. The finer the belt, the easier is it to overheat the cutting edge. You will need to practice a lot on some crappy knives.

But let me ask - do you really plan on sharpening knives on belts, or rather to adjust the geometry (thinning)? I do not see the point to use a grinder just for sharpening to be honest. I would simply use water stones.

If you plan to thin, than you will use much coarser belts than 220. more like 40, 60, 80. For scratch removal I would actually stop at 120 ceramic belt and clean up the freshly ground bevels on water stones (220, 1000) - also to be sure that I did not grind in any low spots - and if I did, I would remove them on stones.
 
Thanks, Matus. Yes, this would be mostly for sharpening very crappy knives. I recently got a batch of 14 crap knives in terrible condition from a customer and got fed up using stones (atoma 140, dmt xc, chosera 400... wouldn't go any higher). To much time and effort for cheap chinese stainless.
 
I see. Then I would start on 120 ceramic belt, touch it up on 220 and finish on stone(s). For example Norton Blaze 120 and 3M Trizact A100 (Trizact belts use microns to describe the grain)
 
Thanks, Matus. What stones do you like after the 220 belt?
 
A generic SiC 120x belt is the sweet spot for me to start with on these types of knives. If they're really jocked I'll go to a 120x ceramic.

Don't bother going too refined on cheap knives, they won't hold an edge for minutes and a fine edge has no teeth to be steeled back in line. My motto is the cheaper the knife the cheaper the edge. :D
 
I actually only grind my knives up to 120 ceramic belt and then switch to 220 Bester stone followed by Watanabe 1000 (I finish the bevel grinding on stones for now).

After 220 belt you should have no problem to go to 400 stone.
 
If you plan on sharpening a lot, spend the extra few bucks for good quality paper. Cheaper belts go smooth quite fast and need replacing. You'll probably ruin many tips and heels before you get the hang of it. Wear safety glasses and have some sort of air filter/suction if you don't want a mess.
 
A generic SiC 120x belt is the sweet spot for me to start with on these types of knives. If they're really jocked I'll go to a 120x ceramic.

Don't bother going too refined on cheap knives, they won't hold an edge for minutes and a fine edge has no teeth to be steeled back in line. My motto is the cheaper the knife the cheaper the edge. :D

Thanks, Dave. I haven't taken any cheapos past Chosera 400. Where would you recommend stopping?

I actually only grind my knives up to 120 ceramic belt and then switch to 220 Bester stone followed by Watanabe 1000 (I finish the bevel grinding on stones for now).

After 220 belt you should have no problem to go to 400 stone.

Thanks, Matus. This is a bit off topic but I have noticed a bunch of references to the Bester 220. A low grit, non-diamond stone is a hole in my lines up. I have been considering ******** 150 and Ai220. Do you have any experience with these? What do you like about the Bester?

If you plan on sharpening a lot, spend the extra few bucks for good quality paper. Cheaper belts go smooth quite fast and need replacing. You'll probably ruin many tips and heels before you get the hang of it. Wear safety glasses and have some sort of air filter/suction if you don't want a mess.

Thanks, joe. When you say "good quality paper," are you referring to paper wheels or just high quality belts? I think I picked up some good belts yesterday from supergrit (ceramic 80,120,220, Trizact A45, SiC 600) so I should be good there, if thats what you mean.


My next step is a strop belt and compound. For that, do ya'll like linen, felt, or leather? For compounds, I am between the ubiquitous "white compound" and 4 micron CBN. Any advice there?
 
Bester 220 is a good stone. Fast, the dishing for this grit and speed is acceptable. There are many variations of 220 pink stones from different makers (Bester, Gesshin Watanabe, Naniwa, etc.) and to my understanding they are all made by the same maker although to different specifications. So similar but not the same.

The only problem I had with the Bester was, than water basically flows through it (literally - after few minutes of sharpening - before the mud would start to slowly drip down the sides of the stone - there would be a pool of clean water under it). I have glued the stone onto a hard PVC board and lacquered the sides (I used a very thin lacquer, so I needed quite a few layers to seal the stone, next time I would use something thicker and fast drying). Problem solved. Now - I permasoak the stone, as drying it in this state would take very long. But now it stopped being thirsty completely.

A few words on the AI#220 - I asked about it Shinichi and he told me that it is a bit more dish resistant than the Bester, but that the difference is not large, so I did not buy one as I already had the Bester.

When I am sharpening cheapo stainless knives I go Atoma 140 (if the knife needs some thinning), then 400 (or 300) and 1000, although I use the 1000 basically for burr removal only (usually under slightly larger angle). I think just 400 edge is really a bit too coarse. But it really depends on the knife (there are differences even in the 'dirt cheap' category)
 
Thanks, Matus. Yes, this would be mostly for sharpening very crappy knives. I recently got a batch of 14 crap knives in terrible condition from a customer and got fed up using stones (atoma 140, dmt xc, chosera 400... wouldn't go any higher). To much time and effort for cheap chinese stainless.

This is what i'm talking about (several no names, Oneida, Chicago Cutlery, Amway, Cutco, Henkel's Chinese line). The Amway's were made in Japan and honestly not horrible. The Henkels were probably the worst of the bunch, surprisingly. Though maybe it was because I had slightly higher expectations of those. The little Cutco parer was by far the best of the bunch!

aNT4A2G.jpg
 
Thanks, Dave. I haven't taken any cheapos past Chosera 400. Where would you recommend stopping?


I've done a lot of testing over the years and found that (even though I can't stand to look at them) a 120x edge is the sweet spot for cheap non-edge holding garbage heat treat/steel knives. There is initial bite, then there's tooth at the edge when the steel gets used. It takes some time to steel away a 120x edge. If you go much coarser the initial cut is very rough and finer impresses on paper/test cuts but fails on food after the first steeling or even when the edge just folds over. Like I said before, cheap knives need cheap edges.
 
I've done a lot of testing over the years and found that (even though I can't stand to look at them) a 120x edge is the sweet spot for cheap non-edge holding garbage heat treat/steel knives. There is initial bite, then there's tooth at the edge when the steel gets used. It takes some time to steel away a 120x edge. If you go much coarser the initial cut is very rough and finer impresses on paper/test cuts but fails on food after the first steeling or even when the edge just folds over. Like I said before, cheap knives need cheap edges.

Do you mean 120grit or ~1200 ?
 
Still getting the hang of it but early indications are QUITE positive! Doubt that edge will last long on a knife like that but it was fun seeing such a cheap knife cut like that!


[video=youtube;fhx3Gjo4_8o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhx3Gjo4_8o[/video]
 
Thanks! Went 80, 220, 400, leather w/ 2 micron boron carbide with this one.
 
I have that sander luv. it. Not a pro at all but have found many uses for it. I mostly take metal off behind the edge on cheap knives, use a bucket of water to dip the blades. 80 grit does it quick. Finish up on a 1K stone these days either JKI diamond stone or large King.

I have shaped western handles on it. Restored old tools axes, Hatchet's, Picks, rounded countless spines on chef knives list goes on it is a good 1" sander with a stong motor. Easy to load belts too.
 
Thanks, Matus. This is a bit off topic but I have noticed a bunch of references to the Bester 220. A low grit, non-diamond stone is a hole in my lines up. I have been considering ******** 150 and Ai220. Do you have any experience with these? What do you like about the Bester?

Ok, I'm new here. Can someone tell me why the name of the 150 stone got censored??
 
I had a ridiculously soft stainless knife made in Japan about 40 years ago for the American department store market. Unusually fine grained though for cheap stainless. I thinned it and put a close to 60deg inclusive edge on it, as a microbevel finished on a high grit. It not only cut acceptably, but held the edge surprisingly well. It could take some serious plastic board abuse.

Referring to the cutco knife mentioned, these are made from Chinese 440C. They take some effort to sharpen but hold an edge very well. A company called Forever Sharp also uses this steel. The grind on their parer a fooled with was crap, but again the steel is very good, at least the particular item I had.
 
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