Breads New York Style Sourdough Bagels

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Michi

I dislike attempts to rewrite history
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I've made bagels quite a few times in the past two years, and tried various recipes with varying success. The recipe I settled on appears below. It is essentially the same as Maurizio Leo's recipe, but with the addition of extra gluten, and barley malt syrup when boiling the dough.

I believe these bagels are every bit as good as what one can buy in New York, with a chewy crumb that is not too dense, and a really crispy and thin crust.

Making these stretches over three days and is more elaborate than most recipes, but the effort is worth it.
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Ingredients
This recipe makes 12 fairly large (138 g) bagels, or 14 standard-size (118 g) ones.

Levain:
  • 116 g Bread flour
  • 58 g Water
  • 23 g Active sourdough starter
Dough:
  • 848 g Bread flour
  • 493 g Water
  • Levain from previous day (197 g)
  • 39 g Vita wheat gluten
  • 29 g Caster sugar
  • 29 g Barley malt syrup
  • 18 g Salt
  • 7 g Diastatic malt powder
For boiling:
  • 2 tbsp barley malt syrup
    or
  • 15 g of sodium hydroxide per litre of boiling water (See this post for how to work with it safely.)
Topping:
  • 2 tsp coarse sea salt
  • 2 tsp coarse granulated garlic
  • 2 tsp coarse granulated onion
  • 2 tsp sesame seed
  • 2 tsp poppy seed
Of course, you can vary the topping to your liking, or omit it entirely.

Method
  1. The evening of day 1, prepare the levain by mixing the flour, water and sourdough starter. The levain has only 50% hydration, so it forms a quite dense dough ball.
    Leave the levain in a covered container overnight. It will easily triple in size, so make sure the container is large enough.
  2. In the morning of day 2, prepare the dough by mixing the levain and all the remaining ingredients. You will need a strong dough mixer, or be prepared for a good work-out.
    Mix the dough for five minutes on low until it comes together, and another three minutes on medium to assist gluten development. You should end up with a firm and silky-smooth dough.
  3. Shape the dough into a ball and let it rest, covered, for 90 minutes.
  4. Give the dough a few slap and folds, shape into a ball again, and rest for another 90 minutes.
  5. Divide into 12 or 14 portions, depending on your size preference. Shape the portions into balls, cover, and let them relax for another five to ten minutes.
  6. Shape each ball into a bagel. You can follow this short video for how to shape bagels. However, I like Dan Souza's method that adds a twist to the dough rope before closing the ends. This is also where I learned about the option of adding extra gluten. (You can see the shaping at 4:40. I wouldn't bother with the rolling pin though; the method shown in the first video is far more efficient.)
  7. Line your baking sheets with Silpats and add a generous amount of coarse corn meal before placing the bagels.
  8. Cover your baking sheets and let the bagels rise at room temperature for 2 hours. They should puff a little bit in that time, but nowhere near to their final size.
  9. Enclose the sheets with large plastic bags, so they are airtight and place into the fridge overnight.
  10. In the morning of day 3, pre-heat your oven to 240 ºC convection, or 260 ºC conventional. Place a cookie sheet or cast iron skillet in the bottom of the oven to pre-heat as well.
  11. Add about four liters of water to a big pot and bring to a boil.
  12. Add two tablespoons of barely malt syrup to the boiling water.
    Alternatively, you can boil the bagels in a 1.5% sodium hydroxide solution. They will get a much darker color that way, similar to Brezen.
  13. Drop the bagels two or three at a time into the boiling water. They may or may not float, depending on how far fermentation proceeded on the previous day before you placed the bagels into the fridge. If they sink to the bottom, you can take them out again, and give the whole lot another hour or two to warm up and proof a bit more. However, I generally don't bother. There is enough oven spring even if the dough is a little denser than water. (As always, observe what happened this time and adjust accordingly for next time.)
    If the bagels float, boil them for 30 seconds, then flip and boil the other side for 30 seconds.
    If they sink, boil them for 40 seconds.
    To fish them out, a spider works very well.
    51zzdqQmjjL._AC_SL1058_.jpg
  14. Turn the hot and wet bagels out onto your baking sheet (still covered with Silpat and corn meal) and sprinkle with your topping.
  15. Boil about 0.5 liters of water in a kettle. Pour the boiling water into the pre-heated sheet pan or skillet and bake your bagels with steam for ten minutes. (If using a conventional oven, I recommend to bake the bagels in two separate batches, to get more even browning.)
  16. After ten minutes, remove the steaming pan and bake for five more minutes.
  17. Drop the temperature to 210 ºC convection or 230 ºC conventional and bake for five more minutes, for a total baking time of 20 minutes. Keep an eye on how quickly the bagels are browning; you may need to reduce the temperature earlier, or bake them a little longer, depending on your oven.
  18. Pull the bagels when they have the right color and, the instant they come out of the oven, spray them with a fine mist of water from a spray bottle. This helps to make the crust shiny and crispy.
  19. Let the bagels cool on a rack.
 
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These look great! I've been very tempted to dip my toes into these waters. I know they're insanely labor/time intensive though. A friend of a friend here in the Bay Area is celebrating their 1 year anniversary of Boichik Bagels and was just named the best bagels in the country (including NYC), I've had them several times and they're amazing.

I wonder if sodium hydroxide in the boil is becoming a less and less thing?

https://thebolditalic.com/boichik-b...g-her-bagels-the-best-in-country-b280520e835c
 
These look great! I've been very tempted to dip my toes into these waters. I know they're insanely labor/time intensive though.
It's not that much work, actually. It's just that, if you use this recipe, you end up waiting for 2.5 days before you get to eat your bagels. But almost all of the time is actually doing nothing.

I wonder if sodium hydroxide in the boil is becoming a less and less thing?
I've never come across sodium hydroxide for bagels. Is (or was) that a thing? I know that sodium hydroxide is important for making Brezen. But bagels?
 
It's not that much work, actually. It's just that, if you use this recipe, you end up waiting for 2.5 days before you get to eat your bagels. But almost all of the time is actually doing nothing.


I've never come across sodium hydroxide for bagels. Is (or was) that a thing? I know that sodium hydroxide is important for making Brezen. But bagels?

I'm no bagel history expert but I believe for NY style bagels it was common.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/24/dining/bagel-recipe-homemade.html
For Montreal style bagels, they're boiled in a bit of honey mixed in the water bath.
 
I'm no bagel history expert but I believe for NY style bagels it was common.
Thank you for that link!

That's the first time I've seen lye mentioned for bagels. The article suggests 1.5%, which is about half the concentration that is used for Brezen. I have no doubt that it will help to create a brown crispy crust; after all, that's what it does for Brezen.

Given that you dunk Brezen for all of 3-5 seconds into a cold 3% lye solution, I'm a little doubtful whether 1.5% isn't too high a concentration if boiling the bagels for 40-60 seconds. It's not just the length of time, but also the higher temperature, which will speed up the reaction by a lot.

But, after searching a bit more, I found a bagel recipe using lye in Modernist Cuisine. They also suggest 1.5% concentration, so it looks like that concentration is about right.

I will try this. Experiment time coming up! :)
 
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I use lye in the boiling water nowadays. I think it’s a good addition. They don’t come out like pretzels.

Spritzing with water after baking is something I hadn’t thought of. Haven’t ever added more gluten either. We’ve been making these every one or two weeks for a while. Not too much of a chore once you get the hang of it.

Will have to try the water spritz, etc.
 
It might be at least a week before I have something to share, but I am going to make this bagel recipe as listed above and will share some pics if it turns out decently. Much appreciation to my friend across the pond Michi for the spur in the loins for trying such a complex and time-necessary recipes to follow. I've went ahead and picked up the items I'm lacking, so in a few days I'll have everything lined up. I just started my starter an hour ago. Fingers crossed!
 
So these are the ones I'll try to replicate. The last bits of ingredients arrived today from Cairnspring Mills (flour), so hopefully I'll be ready by the end of the weekend.

Boichik Bagels in Berkeley California! I picked up a dozen. Man, were they good still moist and warm out of the oven!

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Don't set the bar too low! ;)

I behind by a day now. I spent more time focusing on my starter, and made the mental goof of thinking that was step one, not the levain. So I just now made the levain and won't try to make the dough till at soonest, very late tonight.
 
I behind by a day now. I spent more time focusing on my starter, and made the mental goof of thinking that was step one, not the levain. So I just now made the levain and won't try to make the dough till at soonest, very late tonight.
At least, you made a start(er) :)
 
So my levain didn't proof much, so I added more starter into it, and it proofed better, but I also ended up with them tasting too sour. I also am pretty sure I under-baked them. I only baked a total of 6, first four in the pan, then the last two in order to keep them from touching. I have 6 left unbaked that I'll probably do tomorrow morning and bake them a tad longer.

I'll probably attempt these again since I now have a robust starter going. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the "everything" bagel topped ones will mask some of the intense sourdough flavors. They were also way too chewy and dense.



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Some micro-blisters, and too much residual corn meal.

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They were also way too chewy and dense.
They look good! You could have maybe baked them to a shade darker, but it sure doesn't look like you missed the mark by much at all.

As to being too chewy, I can't offer much advice, even if I could see the crumb. I'm hardly an expert at this.

Some general thoughts:

If they are too chewy because the crumb is too dense, I'd say it likely is because you didn't get enough rise during bulk fermentation or prior to putting the bagels into the fridge. From what you described, your starter wasn't super-active, so that might be it.

If the crumb is not too dense, but they are too chewy regardless, it might be too much gluten. But that's kind of unlikely, unless you used some new kind of super bread flour ;)

Some micro-blisters, and too much residual corn meal.
Micro-blisters are awesome! :)

I don't mind some residual corn meal; it adds texture. If you don't want as much, just rub it off once the bagels have cooled down.

I just started the levain for another batch tonight. I'll take pictures of the various stages this time. Maybe that'll be useful.

I'm also going to boil half of them with barley syrup, and the other half with sodium hydroxide. It'll be interesting to see how much of a difference that makes.
 
Great tips!

Yeah, I had the bowl of dough on the stove while doing some prep work the night before I baked them, and they over-proofed into a massive mushroom cloud of light dough. I punched it down a bit, then rolled them, and they never really rebounded, nor was there really much oven spring happening.

I did just pull the last 6 out of the oven and although they're baked better, and not as salty tasting, they're still too chewy and dense.

I used sodium hydroxide along with the barley malt syrup. Probably overkill.
 
I used sodium hydroxide along with the barley malt syrup. Probably overkill.
I suspect it might be an “either-or” situation. I’m not sure what the effect of the alkaline solution together with sugar will be. I think I might split tomorrow’s batch into three lots so I can find out :)
 
Some more photos of the process, and the difference of boiling in water with barley syrup, a 1.5% sodium hydroxide solution, and a 1.5% sodium hydroxide solution with added barley syrup.

Here is the levain just after preparing it:
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And after sitting on the bench overnight:
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These are the bagels just after shaping, after three hours of bulk rise with a slap and fold at the half-way mark:
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And after rising at room temperature for 45 minutes:
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And again, after sitting in the fridge overnight for about 16 hours.
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This shows the difference in color after boiling. The top four are boiled in water with barley syrup, the bottom two are boiled in 1.5% sodium hydroxide solution. Note how the bottom two have a noticeably darker yellowish shade. The ones boiled in sodium hydroxide with barley syrup looked identical to the bottom two, so I didn't take an extra photo.
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Here they are for comparison after baking. Top four left are with barley syrup, top two right and bottom two left are with sodium hydroxide, and bottom four right are with barley syrup and sodium hydroxide. There is a small amount of extra caramelisation on the ones boiled with both barley syrup and sodium hydroxide, which the photo doesn't pick up that clearly. (The difference is subtle and, without a side-by-side comparison, no-one would ever notice.)
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Oven spring turned out good, no problem there, and there are loads of micro-blisters. I need to work on my shaping skills though.
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Will do an update with tasting notes once they've cooled down and I can recruit my son to provide an opinion without knowing what's been done to which :)
 
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My son and I did a taste testing earlier, and I did one by myself shortly after they came out of the oven.

The dark bagels (with just lye vs with lye and barley syrup) tasted essentially identical. Same crispiness, same texture, same taste. Neither of us could find any difference. Meaning that adding the barley syrup to the lye is a waste of time: it makes the bagels neither better nor worse.

Comparing with and without lye is interesting. The taste difference is a lot less than I expected. With the lye bagels, I can just pick up the lye taste, similar to what I taste with Brezen, but it is more subtle and less pronounced than with Brezen, despite the very dark colour.

The bagels boiled without lye are maybe marginally less crispy than the lye ones, at least initially. After being in the air for two hours or so, the balance flips, and the blond bagels are now a little crispier than the lye bagels. Some difference in how hygroscopic they are, I suspect. (It's been a humid day here today.)

Overall, the differences are not really large enough to lose any sleep over them. It works well with and without lye. In essence, just decide whether you prefer your bagels dark or light, and that's that. (A slight bonus is that the blonde ones mean that I don't have to muck around with lye. At 1.5% concentration, it's pretty harmless stuff but, still, it will stain wood within 5 seconds if you have a bit of a drip. Guess how I know…)
 
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