abrasive and/or impact properties of various cutting surfaces

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gc0220

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Has anyone every actually compared the abrasive and impact wear of various cutting surfaces? Like I feel like people just kind of take a lot of claims for granted about how some surfaces are supposedly kinder to edges and knives. Has anyone collected any kind of empirical evidence to support claims one way or another? Are the rubber boards actually less damaging to a knife edge than wood in general? Are some rubber products better performing than others? How do the various woods compare?

I say this because I recently noticed that an American made rubber board, the sanituff notrax or whatever it's called seems to be dulling white #2 knives significantly faster than a hardwood long grain teak board I usually do cutting tests on. Teak isn't known for being particularly edge friendly, and I slice perpendicular to the long grains. That surprised me. So I tested it out and it's confirmed. It utterly wrecked the edge of white 2. The white 2 knife could not slice a free hanging paper towel after making 4-5 slices into the American rubber board. The teak board it lasted as I expected and suspected from previous fine edge retention testing I've done, about 60 slices. I cut through rolled up paper towels in these test. I also own an Asahi board and a Hasagawa and I plan on testing those out too.

Just wondering if anyone else has thought about this or knows anything.
 
Also had a sani-tuff and it was harder on edges than I thought it was going to be. Like I didn’t even think it was much of an improvement if any over regular plastic/poly boards. Asahi, Hasegawa and other Japanese synthetic rubber boards are much better. Some super soft end grains might even let the edge last longer, but the maintenance and extra weight aren’t really worth it for me.
 
I can imagine there might be an interaction with cutting technique (with certain boards working better with certain techniques). In general I think the more stuff you have the harder it is to really get a feel for it because usage becomes too inconsistent and amount of variables increases. So for me it was a lot easier to compare things when I had just 1 or 2 good knives and 2 boards, compared to the plentitude I have now.
 
Is the rubber wood board made by WinCo?

https://notrax.justrite.com/food-service-matting/cutting-boards
This the one I have tested and confirmed is causing abrasion wear. I've tested it repeatedly with several knives and edges at this point. I'd say these products are ****. They are not cheap, they are not light, they stain fairly easily, they don't clean up well and as I have now seen and demonstrated they perform terribly in terms of abrasion wear to edges. Buy American they said :rolleyes:

Testing is by far the easiest with soft carbons, say Sabs, as they are so little abrasion resistant.

In terms of abrasion and related attributes, absolutely. I'm using white and blue paper steels to do this testing. These knives get by o hardness and geometry because they have very little resistance to abrasion. I'm slicing through a rolled up paper towel and into the surface the board. But also doing a test where I just run the edge over the surface in a slicing motion, I realize that maybe some rubber boards aren't intended to be sliced into or even do slice cutting.

It's just surprising to me that the test knife is able to hold up to 50 slices into a hardwood teak board, edge grain, perpendicular across the grains and still slice through a hanging paper towel. It can't even hold up to 5 slices into this rubber board. I feel like this stuff is so abrasive I could possably sharpen a knife on it's surface like a freaking whetstone.
 
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https://notrax.justrite.com/food-service-matting/cutting-boards
This the one I have tested and confirmed is causing abrasion wear. I've tested it repeatedly with several knives and edges at this point. I'd say these products are ****. They are not cheap, they are not light, they stain fairly easily, they don't clean up well and as I have now seen and demonstrated they perform terribly in terms of abrasion wear to edges. Buy American they said :rolleyes:
I buy HDPE stuff from cuttingboard.com, works well for me so far.
 
So I just tested a hasagawa PE cutting board on the same white #2 test blade and got a very similar result. These surfaces seem to be causing significant abrasion wear to knife edges. Just a few slice cuts into the surface is enough to kill the fine edge on my white #2 test knife. The same test conducted on teak indicates something like 10x less abrasion wear to the edge.

Makes you wonder why everyone (I'm thinking of multimedia content creators like burrfection, never a dull moment, etc) so readily parrots marketing claims in the total absence of any empirical evidence. Just because the company selling a product claims something about their product doesn't make it true. I stupidly purchased these products as a newb with little experience or knowledge, essentially because of the claims made in youtube videos I naively considered trustworthy (as I've learned more I realized just what folly that is, even before I realized this particular claim was a myth). That's been the essence of this experience with knives and whatnot.. Lots of claims. Lots of beliefs. Zero actual evidence. Lots of myths that turn out to be myths, perhaps not surprisingly to the critically minded. Very few critical or fact based sources of information readily available. etc.
 
I mainly stay with maple. I have one synthetic small cutting board that my wife uses. I have been watching her and after she uses it, I end up sharpening the small knife she uses on it. I bought her a small maple light weight long grain cutting board to replace it. I have not really seen an issue with long grain vs end grain on cutting boards. Maybe I don't have enough end grain cutting boards as I only have 2 and I now have 9 long grain cutting boards.
One of my cutting boards is cherry. I have not noticed any difference using it.

I did have a bamboo cutting board that I got rid of years ago as I thought it was too hard. I have 1 bamboo board that came free with a Wusthof knife. I only use it for bread as the bread knives are hard on cutting boards. But it does not seem to be as hard as the other one I had.

I have 2 knife blocks. The small knife block is only knives that I can use. The big knife block is general use for everybody as we have people over that cook with us. I still use knives out of the big knife block as I mostly have specialty knives like salmon etc. in the small block but I have a couple of big 10-inch chef's knives that I don't want them to be dull that I use. The big knife block also has a 10-inch chef knife and 9-inch chef knife that I use sometimes if it is not being used.
 
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So I just tested a hasagawa PE cutting board on the same white #2 test blade and got a very similar result. These surfaces seem to be causing significant abrasion wear to knife edges. Just a few slice cuts into the surface is enough to kill the fine edge on my white #2 test knife. The same test conducted on teak indicates something like 10x less abrasion wear to the edge.

Makes you wonder why everyone (I'm thinking of multimedia content creators like burrfection, never a dull moment, etc) so readily parrots marketing claims in the total absence of any empirical evidence. Just because the company selling a product claims something about their product doesn't make it true. I stupidly purchased these products as a newb with little experience or knowledge, essentially because of the claims made in youtube videos I naively considered trustworthy (as I've learned more I realized just what folly that is, even before I realized this particular claim was a myth). That's been the essence of this experience with knives and whatnot.. Lots of claims. Lots of beliefs. Zero actual evidence. Lots of myths that turn out to be myths, perhaps not surprisingly to the critically minded. Very few critical or fact based sources of information readily available. etc.
Hasegawa PE isn’t as soft as the regular Hasegawa synthetic rubber or other Japanese synthetic rubber boards like Asahi and Hi-Soft. It’s polyethylene so similar to a lot of HDPE cutting boards, the typical white (or color coded) plastic boards used in most restaurant kitchens. Not terrible like glass or marble, but still not the best for knives. Teak on the other hand is a pretty soft wood.

The regular Hasegawa rubber boards and other similar brands have been used in professional settings for years where they want to preserve the knife edge as long as possible, mainly sushi restaurants, and they work well. It’s also difficult to get approval to use wood cutting boards in a professional setting, usually due to health codes. You might be able to get away with a Hinoki board in some places.

I think Asahi is the “hardest” followed by Hasegawa, then Hi-Soft is the softest, but some people find it too soft and easy to damage over time because knife edges bite into it deeply.

Even on plastic boards though, you should be able to get through one or two prep sessions and still have your knife sharp enough to cut paper towel.

Are you slicing into the board like with a sawing motion or just doing a regular push/pull cut? How fine are you sharpening your edge to?
 
Hasegawa PE isn’t as soft as the regular Hasegawa synthetic rubber or other Japanese synthetic rubber boards like Asahi and Hi-Soft. It’s polyethylene so similar to a lot of HDPE cutting boards, the typical white (or color coded) plastic boards used in most restaurant kitchens. Not terrible like glass or marble, but still not the best for knives. Teak on the other hand is a pretty soft wood.

The regular Hasegawa rubber boards and other similar brands have been used in professional settings for years where they want to preserve the knife edge as long as possible, mainly sushi restaurants, and they work well. It’s also difficult to get approval to use wood cutting boards in a professional setting, usually due to health codes. You might be able to get away with a Hinoki board in some places.

I think Asahi is the “hardest” followed by Hasegawa, then Hi-Soft is the softest, but some people find it too soft and easy to damage over time because knife edges bite into it deeply.

Even on plastic boards though, you should be able to get through one or two prep sessions and still have your knife sharp enough to cut paper towel.

Are you slicing into the board like with a sawing motion or just doing a regular push/pull cut? How fine are you sharpening your edge to?

The edge is sharpened is quite finely indeed, I'm not trying to test 2000 cuts per test here, but lets be clear the same edge is able to hold up to 10x the use on teak, long grain, slicing perpendicular to the long grain. The slices are regular push cuts, just enough to get through a rolled up paper towel and making contact with the board. I am not trying to intentionally cause damage to either the board or knife. Modulating the pressure applied doesn't really change the results too much, just speeds up the process of creating inclusions and rolls in the edge and damaging the cutting surfaces excessively. If you really dig into the notrax for instance, you can wreck the edge, at least on white steel, after 1 or 2 deep cuts into the board, rather than say 5 normal human not trying to break **** cuts. I can quantify how much pressure is being applied each cut by using a scale under the cutting surface but it's not very relevant as it's all reasonably uniform.

The NoTrax and the Hasagawa PE board both seem to be causing excessive abrasion wear to the edge. The Hasagawa less so because of the unique surface finishing results in potentially less contact between the board material and the knife edge. Other than that it's the same effect. A handful of push cuts through a rolled up paper towel renders the white #2 knife totally unable to slice through a hanging paper towel.


I'm gonna try to Asahi next but I have a feeling the result will be the same. If you will notice that knife edges dont really want to slide over these surfaces, meaning they are not conducive to rocking cuts. I think the same friction that prevents you from doing rocking cuts on these surfaces is whats dulling a knife with minimal abrasion resistance so quickly.
 
One time I used konosuke YS(thinnest cutting edge I had)to cut potatoes at home on a wooden cutting board, I instantly found few microchips. When I use at work for cutting paper thin scallions, it’s been more than a year now, it’s totally fine. I’m not sure what kind of cutting board I used at work, maby it’s “Hi-soft” liked others have described, the edges can dig into the board if use too much force.
 
The edge is sharpened is quite finely indeed, I'm not trying to test 2000 cuts per test here, but lets be clear the same edge is able to hold up to 10x the use on teak, long grain, slicing perpendicular to the long grain. The slices are regular push cuts, just enough to get through a rolled up paper towel and making contact with the board. I am not trying to intentionally cause damage to either the board or knife. Modulating the pressure applied doesn't really change the results too much, just speeds up the process of creating inclusions and rolls in the edge and damaging the cutting surfaces excessively. If you really dig into the notrax for instance, you can wreck the edge, at least on white steel, after 1 or 2 deep cuts into the board, rather than say 5 normal human not trying to break **** cuts. I can quantify how much pressure is being applied each cut by using a scale under the cutting surface but it's not very relevant as it's all reasonably uniform.

The NoTrax and the Hasagawa PE board both seem to be causing excessive abrasion wear to the edge. The Hasagawa less so because of the unique surface finishing results in potentially less contact between the board material and the knife edge. Other than that it's the same effect. A handful of push cuts through a rolled up paper towel renders the white #2 knife totally unable to slice through a hanging paper towel.


I'm gonna try to Asahi next but I have a feeling the result will be the same. If you will notice that knife edges dont really want to slide over these surfaces, meaning they are not conducive to rocking cuts. I think the same friction that prevents you from doing rocking cuts on these surfaces is whats dulling a knife with minimal abrasion resistance so quickly.
Quite interesting, I don’t have teak but I have used Hinoki and Maple end grain, while they might be better, I did not notice them to be 10 times better than HDPE board, consider the silica content presented it shouldn’t be.
 
The edge is sharpened is quite finely indeed, I'm not trying to test 2000 cuts per test here, but lets be clear the same edge is able to hold up to 10x the use on teak, long grain, slicing perpendicular to the long grain. The slices are regular push cuts, just enough to get through a rolled up paper towel and making contact with the board. I am not trying to intentionally cause damage to either the board or knife. Modulating the pressure applied doesn't really change the results too much, just speeds up the process of creating inclusions and rolls in the edge and damaging the cutting surfaces excessively. If you really dig into the notrax for instance, you can wreck the edge, at least on white steel, after 1 or 2 deep cuts into the board, rather than say 5 normal human not trying to break **** cuts. I can quantify how much pressure is being applied each cut by using a scale under the cutting surface but it's not very relevant as it's all reasonably uniform.

The NoTrax and the Hasagawa PE board both seem to be causing excessive abrasion wear to the edge. The Hasagawa less so because of the unique surface finishing results in potentially less contact between the board material and the knife edge. Other than that it's the same effect. A handful of push cuts through a rolled up paper towel renders the white #2 knife totally unable to slice through a hanging paper towel.


I'm gonna try to Asahi next but I have a feeling the result will be the same. If you will notice that knife edges dont really want to slide over these surfaces, meaning they are not conducive to rocking cuts. I think the same friction that prevents you from doing rocking cuts on these surfaces is whats dulling a knife with minimal abrasion resistance so quickly.
I don’t know man. You check for a wire edge or something? Maybe when you cut on the teak, it kind of pulls off the wire edge or any remaining burr vs on the other boards where it can just fold a wire edge over.

Have you tried cutting food after testing the edge on a board? Maybe a tomato or a couple peppers? I like a good paper towel test as much as the next guy, but cutting paper towel only tells you so much.
 
Quite interesting, I don’t have teak but I have used Hinoki and Maple end grain, while they might be better, I did not notice them to be 10 times better than HDPE board, consider the silica content presented it shouldn’t be.
In this context, abrasion wear on the edge from a slicing motion. white #2 steel, which has as little resistance to this kind of wear as you're gonna find. I have other boards as well.

I don’t know man. You check for a wire edge or something? Maybe when you cut on the teak, it kind of pulls off the wire edge or any remaining burr vs on the other boards where it can just fold a wire edge over.

Have you tried cutting food after testing the edge on a board? Maybe a tomato or a couple peppers? I like a good paper towel test as much as the next guy, but cutting paper towel only tells you so much.

Cutting a free hanging paper towel tells you a lot more about the fine edge than a bess test does. For one thing it's a "systemic" check, it shows how the whole system functions rather than one sub mm section of the edge any given time. All that test really measures is how narrow the apex is at the given segment being tested. A dull knife will still cut through food mostly just fine. You can dull the same hollow ground kato knife I'm using for this test on a piece of glass and the totally dull edge would still basically slice copy paper and go through ingredients because of geometry. In order to shave hair or cut a hanging paper towel you need a fine edge.

At this point I have 100% faith in my conclusions and I'd challenge anyone would show otherwise. I've run it over and over with identical results. I've mish-mashed, doing 10 cuts into the wood, edge is fine, two into the rubber and it's wrecked. I've fully resharpened between tests, I've also just stropped the fine edge back to life between tests. The reason I'm using white #2 is because unlike something like say vg10, making just a handful of cuts into the rubber board will render the fine edge totally useless. VG10 has vastly more resistance to this kind of abrasive wear, will withstand a lot more of it before it shows the same kind of visual or appreciable deterioration.

The issue here isn't a burr, but I get it. Most people on the internet, including those who claim to "freehand sharpening for 40 years" show rudimentary if any skill at all. Most people really suck at sharpening knives, freehand or not, not sure why that it is. I'm a pretty useless person, but even freehand sharpening was not difficult to learn and even master. It's not like learning a musical instrument. Sit down for a couple hours in one day and you can have a foundation to build on. Just to be clear for the sake of tests I'm not freehand sharpening the knives, I'm just making a point about why I can understand why you might assume "oh it's just a burr."

The issue here is marketing claims being taken at face value then becoming basically universally accepted facts by a community. It's just taken for granted, yeah rubber boards = edges last longer. Do the makers of these products even make such claims? I don't think they do. I think someone on youtube just decided that's how they felt, made a video and now everyone repeats these claims like they're the word of god. Only problem is there is zero evidence to support the claim.

Rubber boards maybe make sense in a professional setting, a restaurant which is burdened by regulations, legally mandated rules that prohibit using something like a wooden board. In that case it might make sense to use something like this when compared to hard plastic, especially if you're going chopping style cutting, and particularly with brittle hard Japanese knives. For home cooks these products are frankly terrible. They're expensive. They're heavy. They stain easily. They don't clean up easily. They aren't very convenient, most probably aren't dishwasher safe. And not least of all, the excessive abrasion wear they cause as I have demonstrated (to myself at least).


If I sound annoyed it's because I was one of these idiots who thought oh yeah, youtube guy says so. Must be true. Let's go ahead and spend $300 on some of that. The fact that I was able to observe the abrasive wear happening and that this isn't yet widely understood by "the community" is what compelled me to say something about it. If you are someone considering a rubber board because you have been led to believe it will make your edges last longer, I just want to say, think again. Watch videos of these things in use where you can see that doing rocking cuts on rubber boards is basically impossible due to friction. That same high friction is on the surface is likely what's abrading away the fine edge of your knives so quickly.
 
Cutting a free hanging paper towel tells you a lot more about the fine edge than a bess test does. For one thing it's a "systemic" check, it shows how the whole system functions rather than one sub mm section of the edge any given time. All that test really measures is how narrow the apex is at the given segment being tested. A dull knife will still cut through food mostly just fine. You can dull the same hollow ground kato knife I'm using for this test on a piece of glass and the totally dull edge would still basically slice copy paper and go through ingredients because of geometry. In order to shave hair or cut a hanging paper towel you need a fine edge.

At this point I have 100% faith in my conclusions and I'd challenge anyone would show otherwise. I've run it over and over with identical results. I've mish-mashed, doing 10 cuts into the wood, edge is fine, two into the rubber and it's wrecked. I've fully resharpened between tests, I've also just stropped the fine edge back to life between tests. The reason I'm using white #2 is because unlike something like say vg10, making just a handful of cuts into the rubber board will render the fine edge totally useless. VG10 has vastly more resistance to this kind of abrasive wear, will withstand a lot more of it before it shows the same kind of visual or appreciable deterioration.

The issue here isn't a burr, but I get it. Most people on the internet, including those who claim to "freehand sharpening for 40 years" show rudimentary if any skill at all. Most people really suck at sharpening knives, freehand or not, not sure why that it is. I'm a pretty useless person, but even freehand sharpening was not difficult to learn and even master. It's not like learning a musical instrument. Sit down for a couple hours in one day and you can have a foundation to build on. Just to be clear for the sake of tests I'm not freehand sharpening the knives, I'm just making a point about why I can understand why you might assume "oh it's just a burr."

The issue here is marketing claims being taken at face value then becoming basically universally accepted facts by a community. It's just taken for granted, yeah rubber boards = edges last longer. Do the makers of these products even make such claims? I don't think they do. I think someone on youtube just decided that's how they felt, made a video and now everyone repeats these claims like they're the word of god. Only problem is there is zero evidence to support the claim.

Rubber boards maybe make sense in a professional setting, a restaurant which is burdened by regulations, legally mandated rules that prohibit using something like a wooden board. In that case it might make sense to use something like this when compared to hard plastic, especially if you're going chopping style cutting, and particularly with brittle hard Japanese knives. For home cooks these products are frankly terrible. They're expensive. They're heavy. They stain easily. They don't clean up easily. They aren't very convenient, most probably aren't dishwasher safe. And worst of all, the expressive abrasion wear they cause as I have demonstrated (to myself at least) with these tests.
Free hanging towel test is terrible for demonstrating edge, a edge with large wire burr can cut paper towel with no problem, it is often demonstrated by new learners in sharpening, Bess test or Catra is not perfect but has controls.
Rubber or plastic board is a category not actual material, there are HDPE, LDPE, PC and PP, also large variations of synthetic rubber. The abrasive is determined by silica content not surface texture or hardness especially using hard steel knife. If your experience tell you that’s bad for the knife so be it but I have vastly different experience regarding use, and the test conducted in the article I linked demonstrated very little difference between these materials, I’m sure that can’t convince you, but unless there’s an experiment with more controlled variables like Larrin’s CATRA test I don’t think anything is dead set.
 
Free hanging towel test is terrible for demonstrating edge, a edge with large wire burr can cut paper towel with no problem, it is often demonstrated by new learners in sharpening, Bess test or Catra is not perfect but has controls.
Rubber or plastic board is a category not actual material, there are HDPE, LDPE, PC and PP, also large variations of synthetic rubber. The abrasive is determined by silica content not surface texture or hardness especially using hard steel knife. If your experience tell you that’s bad for the knife so be it but I have vastly different experience regarding use, and the test conducted in the article I linked demonstrated very little difference between these materials, I’m sure that can’t convince you, but unless there’s an experiment with more controlled variables like Larrin’s CATRA test I don’t think anything is dead set.

Cutting something like a free hanging paper towel is practical and functional test of a fine edge. Like shaving hair, it's a real, actual, task that only a sharp knife could accomplish. You are right, about the burr. But these are unrelated things. Are you trying to slice a hanging paper to determine if the edge has a wire or not? It's not related. Slicing the towels tells you nothing about the edge having a burr or not. All it tells you is the edge is keen enough to be considered "fine." Obviously the geometry and thickness of the stock will also determine how easily and readily the knife slices the paper towel. None of that is pertinently relevant to the topic at hand though.

I don't know what determines how abrasive these materials are. I don't know anything about these materials or how they're made or what they're made of and I'm not sure that it's public information. Seems dramatic to call it a trade secret, but that's basically what it is. Like the seasonings in KFC kitchen. You're making a claim that it's silica content chiefly responsible for the abrasive quality. I have no clue if that's accurate or not but I'm skeptical because I've heard this exact claim bandied about this and related topics and I've basically become accustomed to every "conventional fact" in "knife land" to end up being total nonsense. That's just pattern recognition on my part. If you do actually know more about the topic, that would be cool.


I agree that hardness and abrasive properties are distinct and not necessarily related. You can have a soft surface that has more abrasion and vice versa. Nobody made any claim otherwise.

As far as the surface texture, this isn't complicated. I'm sure my explanation is poor, but it's not complicated to understand. The difference is less surface area making contact with the knife. The notrax board is a flat surface. The hasagawa board has a textured surface. I have no clue how tall the little bumps on the surface are, but unless you cut all the way through them, the edge isn't making the same kind of contact. It's only making contact with the raised segments, rather than a flat surface. Really simple.


The only thing that's dead set in my mind about this topic is the result.

I'd challenge you or anyone else to try it for yourself. You don't have to use basic carbon steel knife, but it will help speed up the process greatly. Grab a wooden board, grab your magic edge saving rubber board. Try to make identical cuts into each. Observe the impact it has on the fine edge. The kind of edge you need to shave hair or slice a free hanging paper towel. Yes, I understand a burr will shave hair or slice the pt. Somehow the magic burr which doesn't show up under 400x magnification is immune to the wood, but the rubber gets it every time. I don't think so.
 
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Cutting something like a free hanging paper towel is practical and functional test of a fine edge. Like shaving hair, it's a real, actual, task that only a sharp knife could accomplish. You are right, about the burr. But these are unrelated things. Are you trying to slice a hanging paper to determine if the edge has a wire or not? It's not related. Slicing the towels tells you nothing about the edge having a burr or not. All it tells you is the edge is keen enough to be considered "fine." Obviously the geometry and thickness of the stock will also determine how easily and readily the knife slices the paper towel. None of that is pertinently relevant to the topic at hand though.

I don't know what determines how abrasive these materials are. I don't know anything about these materials or how they're made or what they're made of and I'm not sure that it's public information. Seems dramatic to call it a trade secret, but that's basically what it is. Like the seasonings in KFC kitchen. You're making a claim that it's silica content chiefly responsible for the abrasive quality. I have no clue if that's accurate or not but I'm skeptical because I've heard this exact claim bandied about this and related topics and I've basically become accustomed to every "conventional fact" in "knife land" to end up being total nonsense. That's just pattern recognition on my part. If you do actually know more about the topic, that would be cool.


I agree that hardness and abrasive properties are distinct and not necessarily related. You can have a soft surface that has more abrasion and vice versa. Nobody made any claim otherwise.

As far as the surface texture, this isn't complicated. I'm sure my explanation is poor, but it's not complicated to understand. The difference is less surface area making contact with the knife. The notrax board is a flat surface. The hasagawa board has a textured surface. I have no clue how tall the little bumps on the surface are, but unless you cut all the way through them, the edge isn't making the same kind of contact. It's only making contact with the raised segments, rather than a flat surface. Really simple.


The only thing that's dead set in my mind about this topic is the result.

I'd challenge you or anyone else to try it for yourself. You don't have to use basic carbon steel knife, but it will help speed up the process greatly. Grab a wooden board, grab your magic edge saving rubber board. Try to make identical cuts into each. Observe the impact it has on the fine edge. The kind of edge you need to shave hair or slice a free hanging paper towel. Yes, I understand a burr will shave hair or slice the pt. Somehow the magic burr which doesn't show up under 400x magnification is immune to the wood, but the rubber gets it every time. I don't think so.
There is no trade secret you can search on manufacturers’ website, they disclose the material. I used rubber, HDPE, end grain maple, edge grain maple, there is no discernible difference between them, I use mostly simple carbon like blue 2, blue 1 and white 1. The comparison done in my link is using even softer and simple Vic carbon.
 
BTW I don’t even use a synthetic rubber board, I use a $20 HDPE board, there’s very little difference between it and end grain.
 
Cutting a free hanging paper towel tells you a lot more about the fine edge than a bess test does. For one thing it's a "systemic" check, it shows how the whole system functions rather than one sub mm section of the edge any given time. All that test really measures is how narrow the apex is at the given segment being tested. A dull knife will still cut through food mostly just fine. You can dull the same hollow ground kato knife I'm using for this test on a piece of glass and the totally dull edge would still basically slice copy paper and go through ingredients because of geometry. In order to shave hair or cut a hanging paper towel you need a fine edge.

At this point I have 100% faith in my conclusions and I'd challenge anyone would show otherwise. I've run it over and over with identical results. I've mish-mashed, doing 10 cuts into the wood, edge is fine, two into the rubber and it's wrecked. I've fully resharpened between tests, I've also just stropped the fine edge back to life between tests. The reason I'm using white #2 is because unlike something like say vg10, making just a handful of cuts into the rubber board will render the fine edge totally useless. VG10 has vastly more resistance to this kind of abrasive wear, will withstand a lot more of it before it shows the same kind of visual or appreciable deterioration.

The issue here isn't a burr, but I get it. Most people on the internet, including those who claim to "freehand sharpening for 40 years" show rudimentary if any skill at all. Most people really suck at sharpening knives, freehand or not, not sure why that it is. I'm a pretty useless person, but even freehand sharpening was not difficult to learn and even master. It's not like learning a musical instrument. Sit down for a couple hours in one day and you can have a foundation to build on. Just to be clear for the sake of tests I'm not freehand sharpening the knives, I'm just making a point about why I can understand why you might assume "oh it's just a burr."

The issue here is marketing claims being taken at face value then becoming basically universally accepted facts by a community. It's just taken for granted, yeah rubber boards = edges last longer. Do the makers of these products even make such claims? I don't think they do. I think someone on youtube just decided that's how they felt, made a video and now everyone repeats these claims like they're the word of god. Only problem is there is zero evidence to support the claim.

Rubber boards maybe make sense in a professional setting, a restaurant which is burdened by regulations, legally mandated rules that prohibit using something like a wooden board. In that case it might make sense to use something like this when compared to hard plastic, especially if you're going chopping style cutting, and particularly with brittle hard Japanese knives. For home cooks these products are frankly terrible. They're expensive. They're heavy. They stain easily. They don't clean up easily. They aren't very convenient, most probably aren't dishwasher safe. And not least of all, the excessive abrasion wear they cause as I have demonstrated (to myself at least).


If I sound annoyed it's because I was one of these idiots who thought oh yeah, youtube guy says so. Must be true. Let's go ahead and spend $300 on some of that. The fact that I was able to observe the abrasive wear happening and that this isn't yet widely understood by "the community" is what compelled me to say something about it. If you are someone considering a rubber board because you have been led to believe it will make your edges last longer, I just want to say, think again. Watch videos of these things in use where you can see that doing rocking cuts on rubber boards is basically impossible due to friction. That same high friction is on the surface is likely what's abrading away the fine edge of your knives so quickly.
I didn’t say anything about comparing a paper towel test to a BESS test. “A dull knife will still cut through food mostly just fine” sounds like a weird statement to make, I care more about my how my knife cuts through food vs how it cuts through paper towel or shaves hair. Also I would say freehand sharpening is easy to start learning, but not at all easy to “master”.

I think it’s a bit extreme to write off rubber boards when you’ve only tried the No-Trax (which I agree is harsh on edges) and the Hasegawa FSB which is made of polyethylene. I don’t really watch “knife YouTubers” but there are plenty of people on this forum and elsewhere who’ve used synthetic rubber at home and at work for an extended period of time and who originally used wooden cutting boards and don’t have any issue with dulling their edges too quickly.

Also, most people who’ve used them acknowledge it’s more difficult to rock cut on a synthetic rubber board. They were designed originally for places like sushi restaurants where there’s not a lot of rock chopping going on.
 
I didn’t say anything about comparing a paper towel test to a BESS test. “A dull knife will still cut through food mostly just fine” sounds like a weird statement to make, I care more about my how my knife cuts through food vs how it cuts through paper towel or shaves hair. Also I would say freehand sharpening is easy to start learning, but not at all easy to “master”.

Absolutely. I agree on all points. It's not easy to master but it's also not as difficult as mastering a musical instrument for instance. Point being, it's not that hard. As far as cutting pt. All I would say is it's a fairly normalized pass/fail way to assess the fine edge of a given knife. Not comparing one knife to another knife with totally different geometry. It's the same knife, same cut test. All that's changed is the state of the edge after being used on various surfaces. A knife that can cleanly and easily slice through a free hanging paper towel will also have an easier time as the same knife going through ingredients.

The only board I don't have is the hi-soft. I have no plans on purchasing one. Anyway I think if someone made a video demonstrating this then it would be a lot easier for people to understand. Until that happens, I'd suggest anyone who is interested and has the equipment to try it out for yourself.

Something about the rubber surface, I suspect it's the same reason they have too much friction to easily do slice cuts or rocking, is causing abrasive wear to the edge as it runs over the surface. As best as I could quantify it with what I have at hand, it's 10x the effect of teak. That's not very "edge friendly" to me.

Masakage yuki 120 mm petty. Sharpened to ~30 dps inclusive. Roll up a paper towel. Push cut through it just like you would to any food ingredient. After about 3 cuts on the notrax, you will notice it's not slicing through the rolled up pt as cleanly or easily. Once you get to 4-5 cuts, you can feel the knife is much duller. So you stop after 5 cuts to assess the edge and it's dull. The same thing on a teak surface takes 10x as many cuts.

This knife is perfect for the test because it's quite thin behind the edge, and it's made of white #2 at a target hardness of 61 rc. Probably the easiest to dull/sharpen of any Japanese steel. If I used something like vg10 Shun I'm certain it would hold up a lot more cuts on the rubber. With a modern abrasion resistant steel like R2 you might not even notice it was happening at all.

I suspect most people here intuitively preferred wood boards anyway. But if I can spare one person from dropping over $100 on a rubber board thinking it will make their edges last longer then I will be happy. Get the rubber board if you want one, just don't expect it to give you longer lasting edges. At least not fine edges. Idk about you guys but I keep my knives very sharp. Personally, now that I've spent my money and time on it and seen for myself, I don't think rubber makes any sense what so ever outside of a pro environment where wood is legally prohibited. It's not like these things are cheap.
 
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Even the wood boards there’s quality difference, one time I was chopping bones, I ended up splitting the woodbard instead of splitting the bones.
 
I haven't had that much time but since i've been responding to it a bunch I tested the Asahi. It's not much worse than wood. It does not exhibit the same kind of excessive abrasion like the NoTrax or the Hasagawa PE boards do. You still can't do rocking style cutting on the Asahi but for whatever reason it doesn't result in a dulled edge after 3-4 slices into it like the first two. I got to 50 and stopped. Basically the same as the wood, maybe slightly worse. All in all, just fine. Still the idea that it keeps the edge much longer than wood is clearly not true. I still think that if I knew then what I know now I would stick to wood unless I was in a professional environment where it's legally not an option. I think I'm gonna test some other types of wood, I have a bunch, and the regular Hasagawa next time around.

Asahi is okay. Avoid NoTrax and Hasagawa PE though. Side note, anyone wanna buy a newish Hasagaw PE board. lmao. It cost $100. I'm thinking $50 and split the shipping costs. It's basically like new, never actually been used, and it dulls the test knife so quickly I've barely even cut on it, and I'll throw in a brand new Hasagaw scrubber. If anyone is interested I can upload photos. It sucks balls and will wreck your edges, but please do buy it. lmao. Its the FSB20-5030 model, the brown one.
 
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Even the wood boards there’s quality difference, one time I was chopping bones, I ended up splitting the woodbard instead of splitting the bones.
Yeah for sure. I'm sure different types of wood or even just different samples would probably have enough of a difference in abrasion to notice on a test like this. I just have no clue or experience to speak on it. I used teak as the baseline to compare the plastic/rubber stuff. I was shocked how poorly NoTrax performed and perhaps even more shocked when the Hasagawa PE was basically the same. A bit relieved that the Asahi isn't nearly as bad, so I'm assuming the regular Hasagawa probably won't be bad either. We shall see.
 
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