Stainless Laser Gyuto 210mm wa or yo , Gesshin Ginga , Takamura R2/SG2 , or ... ?

[rickbern]

Snapped you up a picture. Gesshin ginga 240 in the middle, wakui 210 on the left , wakui 240 on the right. I aligned the horn bolsters on the handles. Showed a tape so it would seem all science like.

I think the 240 is a nice nimble size in these knives, there’s not overwhelming difference between any of them when all is said and done. But the ginga 240 still feels more like a 240 than a 210

 

[Jovidah]

OP I've owned both yo- and wa-handled gingas, and several takamuras (all yo). Both knives cut very well because of the laser grinds. Basically, I think you can decide like this...

1) If you want a wa-gyuto because you prefer the feel and asthetics, you'll obviously have to go with the ginga, since takamura doesn't make a wa-handled knife in its r2 migaki series. There is a very rare takamura hana/uchigumo that has a sort of hybrid wa-yo handle, but good luck finding one. It would probably take you a year to track one down and it would be extremely expensive. So, again, if you want a wa handle, it's a no brainer to go with the ginga.

2) If you want a yo-gyuto, the main difference between the ginga and takamura IMHO is the balance point. Both the ginga and takamura have a full-length tang, but only the ginga has a full-height tang. The tang on the takamura does not extend through the full height of the handle. In some contexts, such as for a heavy use outdoor knife, the lack of a full-height tang might be considered a drawback because of a potential lack of structural integrity. This is not an issue at all in a chef's knife. You will not be using your gyuto to baton through hardwood. You will be cutting food. So, that said, what is the effect of the difference in tang construction when it comes to a chef's knife? Say it with me: balance point! The takamura has less weight in the handle, and, therefore, comparatively more weight in the blade. This allows for a more blade-forward balance, and, in my opinion, a superior "feel" in cutting performance.

That said, I recognize that some users have felt that the lightness of the takamura lends it a sort of toy-like feel compared to the ginga. I think these users are likely responding to the fact that the ginga's full-height (and length) tang gives it a more robust feel. Fair enough. But I think that the difference in balance point more than makes up for this phenomenon. I've also never personally felt that my takamuras seemed like toys. To me, the takamura wins this comparison.

But, bottom line, both are excellent knives and you'll likely be happy with whichever you choose. If you get both to compare, you'll probably also be able to sell whichever one you decide not to keep, here on BST. BST is a bit slower these days than it used to be, but the ginga and takamura are both very popular knives, and you'll probably be able to sell either with a bit of patience and an enticing price.

Good luck and enjoy!

You're quite right about the pecularities of the Takamura's handle design - something I actually find quite elegant and probably helps to balance the knife somewhat neutral. Actually wouldn't mind seeing that on more yo-handles.

But my feeling of delicacy / toyness is not because of the weight handle or balance, it's more due to the cutting feedback. Thin san-mai construction gives this somewhat dampened springy feeling... I had the same problem with my Yoshikane. Even though it might not actually be delicate, the monosteel simply feels better to me because it has this more direct, sharper feedback. In actual weight I think the Ginga might actually still be lighter when comparing similar sizes.

What does however speak for the Takamura, and something I forgot to mention, is that it's a bit cheaper. Not as cheap as they were (I bought mine for something like 130 euros) but still in the <200 range for a 210, even when buying in Europe. In Europe it's also much easier to get a Takamura (more retailers carry them) than an Ashi.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Within the stated budget of +-$250 , price is not really a concern .

 

[nopomo]

I think the Kanehide/Hitohira KH (with ‘PS60’ steel and red handles) might be an even better choice than Ashi for OP. Standard (~45 mm) heel height, thicker stock, bigger handle, more robust all around. And, best of all, you can actually find them in stock!

 

[Cliff]

I like the Takamura handle for the half-tang. Goko's W1 yo 240 is similar.

 

[chiffonodd]

But my feeling of delicacy / toyness is not because of the weight handle or balance, it's more due to the cutting feedback. Thin san-mai construction gives this somewhat dampened springy feeling... I had the same problem with my Yoshikane. Even though it might not actually be delicate, the monosteel simply feels better to me because it has this more direct, sharper feedback. In actual weight I think the Ginga might actually still be lighter when comparing similar sizes.

Yeah that's totally fair. Guess it demonstrates that san mai really does absorb impact. Maybe that dampened feeling in combination with the lightness is what creates the toy-like experience for you, since it would seem sort of delicate and lifeless.

 

[Cliff]

Part of it is the steel. R2 feels quite different, and agreed about the construction

 

[MowgFace]

Leaning toward the Gesshin Ginga 210 yo or 240 wa .

My two Gingas.

Ashi 210 SS and Gesshin 240 W#2 w/ Ichii handle.

 

[DreamSun]

• Shibata SG2 has excellent fit and finish right out of the box. K-tip is not for everyone's taste though.
• Hatsukokoro Hayabusa is a good value option with similar grind geometry to the Takamura knives, but can benefit from some work on the spine/choils
• Hit up Matt @MSicardCutlery for a custom AEB-L gyuto. His laser grinds will blow the socks off most of the Japanese stuff you are gonna find.

Definitely enjoy my Ashi more than my Shibata.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

I think gonna wait for 210mm Gesshin Ginga Yo be available .
Loving my 210 Anryu Wa Blue #2 !

 

[Blumbo]

Another good option for you to consider is this guy. Basically stainless with a little more heel height, and slightly cheaper.

https://www.**************.com/kogsgy210.html

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Another good option for you to consider is this guy. Basically stainless with a little more heel height, and slightly cheaper.

https://www.**************.com/kogsgy210.html

Thanks . Been looking at Konosuke !

 

[daveb]

A Frames carried the Tadasuna line up for a long time but don't see it now. One of the three lasers when lasers become a trend along with the Gesshin Ginga and Suisin IH. You might ask them about a 210 Tad.

FWIW, my experience with Suisin IH, 2 gyuto, is not a 90/10 grind though not 50/50. Don't know what marketeer came up with that ratio.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

A Frames carried the Tadasuna line up for a long time but don't see it now. One of the three lasers when lasers become a trend along with the Gesshin Ginga and Suisin IH. You might ask them about a 210 Tad.

FWIW, my experience with Suisin IH, 2 gyuto, is not a 90/10 grind though not 50/50. Don't know what marketeer came up with that ratio.

Korin lists the Suisin IH 210 gyuto as 90/10
https://www.korin.com/HSU-WAGY-210?...2%7D&custcol_sca_line_id=mainItem%3Aovqswmufn

 

[daveb]

I owned one from Korin. It was not 90/10. Perhaps a phone call to clarify?

 

[Qapla']

It gets even weirder. Their western-handle version of that very same knife is billed as 80/20.

https://www.korin.com/HSU-PIRGY-210

 

[ayumi_ishida]

It gets even weirder. Their western-handle version of that very same knife is billed as 80/20.

https://www.korin.com/HSU-PIRGY-210

https://www.korin.com/japanese-knives/brands/suisin/suisin-inox-honyaki-wa-series

The Suisin Inox Honyaki knives represent a perfect hybrid of traditional Japanese and Western style knives. `Wa’ stands for `Japanese,’ which refers to the thin, honyaki tempered Swedish steel with a traditional Japanese yew handle and a water buffalo horn bolster. The blade’s sharp 90:10 bevel makes it similar to a single sided edge, which is great for precision work. This line is the lightest knife in Korin’s collection and is highly recommended for those interested in traditional Japanese knives, while retaining all the practicality and user-friendliness of Western style knives.



Specifications

• HRc: 60
• Bevel: 90/10
• Steel Type: Stain Resistant

 

[ayumi_ishida]

On Korin website :
Premium Inox line is listed as 80/20
Inox Western Style line is listed as 70/30

 

[Qapla']

On Korin website :
Premium Inox line is listed as 80/20
Inox Western Style line is listed as 70/30

Those are different knives. The Suisin Inox Premium is the normal-handle version of the Suisin Inox "Honyaki" line (19c27 steel).
The Suisin Inox Western is AUS-8 steel, probably not a million miles away from things like a Takayuki TUS.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

I emailed miura knives who are located in Japan and I think they are a Suisin distributor .
Re: the IH 240 Gyuto they promptly replied :
The knife is about 60/40.

 

[oso_hambroso]

I have the Anryu 210 gyuto and the Gesshin Ginga 240, and I'd go with the 240. I've handled the 210 in person, it's really around 200 and feels quite small in length and at the heel as well. The 240 Ginga actually measures in around 230x50 and weighs 142g, less than my Anryu (164g) so it feels surprisingly nimble.

It's a great knife and noticable difference from the Anryu, which I don't really use anymore. As far as lasers go, the Ginga is very stiff and does not feel fragile, compared to e.g. the Shibata 210 I have, which is nail flexing thin but also cuts noticeably better than even the Ginga.

I've also got a Takamura petty, so not directly comparable to the Gyuto but it's a great knife and great value. I'd say it's comparable to the Ginga and the handle is very nice, but it only comes in 210.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Anryu gyuto
Hand-forged by a master
Sharp and beautiful

 

[Tomas Randa]

I’m a big laser guy, don’t like heavy knives and thick knives. I own many lasers or near lasers. I own a Takamura 210mm and not a big fan of it. It’s a little too light and whippy/flimsy, also feels soulless. Nigara, Yoshimi kato, Yu Kurosaki, shibata, Ryusen are far better blades. Used my Takamura once and never used it again will be selling it one day. Masakage also super laser through product but more ridged and substantial feel. I also have kei Kobayashi and have the same general option of it, prefer the other blades listed above which cut just as well but aren’t too thin. There’s something about these ultra thin knives, they feel like they have no soul.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Stunning collection !