Kasumi Expectations, Good Lighting vs. Bad Lighting

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mrmoves92

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TLDR: Do your nice looking kasumi finishes look a little ugly in unfavorable lighting, and do they have some bright scratches at certain angles? Please post pictures of a good finish in favorable lighting from a good angle and post the same finish in unfavorable lighting from an unfavorable angle.

Hello! Two nights ago, my girlfriend was watching a tv show that I didn’t really care for, so I decided to do some knife polishing until she was done watching her show. I wanted to try polishing with my recently acquired Shapton Glass 2000, and I had a fingerstone that I also wanted to try.

I am not great or even good at polishing, the bevels on my knife probably could have been flatter, and I did a bit of a rushed/not super careful job, so the results are not great (also please no making fun of my super worn kurouchi finish, lol). I started on my Cerax 1000. Once I was done, I moved on to my SG2000. I didn’t really like polishing with it. It doesn’t feel as nice as my Cerax 1000, the mud got pretty thick and sticky, and with my limited polishing skills, it left a more uneven polish with several bright spots. I kept working with it, but it wasn’t getting any better, so I moved onto a Narutaki fingerstone. I went until it looked like most/all of the scratches were from the fingerstone. It was nighttime and dark outside, so I was polishing and viewing the knife under harsher, bright lights above me. There was a decent amount of contrast, but there were so many terrible scratches, it looked ugly, and I was not happy with the job that I did. My girlfriend’s show ended, and I was done polishing for the night so I set the knife down to dry completely (after wiping it dry). I (once again) was reminded that polishing is more difficult than it seems, and I was left with a feeling of emptiness and a lack of satisfaction.

The next morning, I woke up and went into the kitchen. Natural light was coming into the kitchen, and I didn’t have to turn on any lights. What I remembered as an ugly finish magically turned into a half-decent looking finish in the natural light. This brought up some questions, so I took 3 pictures in the favorable, natural light and 3 pictures in unfavorable, harsher light, and I decided that I wanted to start this discussion.

Here are the photos in favorable, natural light:
CE340E52-198F-4A47-B12A-2E96B8A3D935.jpeg
99CB71EB-6A6A-46A9-A155-DFAC03828946.jpeg
A61EA5BE-9870-4569-8269-E443F474BB60.jpeg


Here are the photos in unfavorable/harsher light:
326C2741-F21F-4078-9D8E-05BF49F4F759.jpeg
AF941354-72D6-46F8-B028-3AA06E04CF30.jpeg
5BD24B01-844B-474D-BB6F-AC402C9FFEC7.jpeg


As you can see, I didn’t do a great job, but that is not the point here. I think that there is a very noticeable difference between how the finish looks under the two lighting conditions. If I were going to try to show off in one of the polishing threads, I might post the images with the favorable/natural light. I suspect that others might also do the same and post pictures of their knives in the most favorable lighting to show off their finish (but I also suspect that most people do a better job than I did and don’t just cherry pick decent photos from a mediocre finish). If I were to see these images in a polishing thread, I would think that the images in favorable lighting look okay/decent, but I would also say that the finishes in the unfavorable lighting look bad/mediocre. A lot of posts in polishing threads show off perfect-looking or very good looking polishes, and I am expecting that I will get those good results (from a lot of angles and lighting conditions) if I practice enough and have the right equipment. Here are the questions that I now have:

1. Are my expectations too high?
2. Do your finishes look good in all lighting conditions and all angles, or are there unfavorable angles and lighting conditions that make your actually good finishes look worse or even ugly?
3. Even in the favorable lighting, you can see small scratches from the fingerstone. Do your nice finishes have small scratches like this or no?

If you can and want to, please post pictures of what you consider to be a good finish in favorable lighting from a good angle and other images of that same finish in unfavorable lighting from a bad angle.

I hope that this is an interesting topic, and I hope that this can be a good reference of what to expect for beginners like me.

Thanks!
 
I think your fingerstone can't cover scratches from 1000/2000 grits. I have no experience with fingerstone, but before my natural finishing stone I normally go up to 5000 grit.
 
I’m getting best results with jibiki uchi and Maruoyama shiro suita, mikawa nagura proceeding both

Ohira shiro suita and Mikawa nagura come in second place

Always check under fluorescent light, the first knife was stone only, no finger stones


8F0C4D00-EFAA-4508-92A8-473D14197F5F.jpeg



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C4E87BA1-D8B0-45D0-B646-BF0CFAA91A7D.jpeg
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In my experience, which is limited compared to many around here, photographing a good polish is a skill not unlike the polish work itself. The pictures you see of crazy detail in cladding, wild contrast between steels, and popping hamons is the result of carefully capturing the subtle details a good kasumi brings out. The same polish can look like a mirror from one angle and be a dark, wet, misty finish from another.

That said, no photo tricks can cover up scratches. By the time you are done with a finishing jnat or finger-stones, there shouldn’t be any scratches visible to the naked eye or even a phone camera. Be warned, it takes FOREVER to get lay down a solid base for a polish. No amount of polishing is going to fix a deep scratch hiding in a low spot, you’ve got to lay down the base first. Once that is done though, things get significantly easier.

I’ve got a Shapton Glass 2k and it can leave a good base finish for kasumi, but the nature of the stone is that things are going to be streaky. But, the scratches are shallow and uniform, which is what you want. If your fingerstones are soft enough, they’d probably do a sufficient job after this provided everything is as even as possible. Looking at what you’ve posted though, I think you probably need to go lower than a 1k to take out the existing scratches and low spots. Go slow, use every stone you have to make a tight progression, and be sure you couldn’t do any better with your current stone before moving onto the next. Especially when starting out with polishing, patience is the key.

Somewhere Nutmeg has a guide to kasumi / fingerstones, I’d suggest you dig that up and read it - really excellent stuff.
 
if there is a way to get a perfectly uniform, completely scratch free finish from a natural, I have yet to find it.

what I mean is that I can have a really, REALLY good looking finish but if you shine a bright enough light on it and look at it from a certain angle very, very shallow scratches reveal themselves to me. especially on core steel where genuinely polishing those ****ers out would take my entire lifetime.

my general tip for both polishing and sharpening is that if you are struggling to get decent results you need to start at a lower grit. JME.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses so far! I should have more time on Thursday or Friday, and I will really give it a serious go then with all of your advice and give you an update. I will go through my grits Nanohone 200 or Gesshin 220 -> SG500 -> Cerax 1k -> SG2k -> Rika 5k -> fingerstone, and I will really try to be careful/patient about letting any coarser scratches through. I will document how the knife looks at different stages of the process. Thanks!
 
if there is a way to get a perfectly uniform, completely scratch free finish from a natural, I have yet to find it.

what I mean is that I can have a really, REALLY good looking finish but if you shine a bright enough light on it and look at it from a certain angle very, very shallow scratches reveal themselves to me. especially on core steel where genuinely polishing those ****ers out would take my entire lifetime.

my general tip for both polishing and sharpening is that if you are struggling to get decent results you need to start at a lower grit. JME.
Agreed. "Scratch free" is probably a poor choice of words on my part. What I meant is that under normal conditions (no magnification, typical lighting, and more than a couple inches away from your eyes) you can't see scratches. The scratches are there, of course, but you can't find them without looking.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses so far! I should have more time on Thursday or Friday, and I will really give it a serious go then with all of your advice and give you an update. I will go through my grits Nanohone 200 or Gesshin 220 -> SG500 -> Cerax 1k -> SG2k -> Rika 5k -> fingerstone, and I will really try to be careful/patient about letting any coarser scratches through. I will document how the knife looks at different stages of the process. Thanks!
Don't be disappointed if it takes you longer than just a couple sessions to get through the early stones. A helpful trick to see if you are getting everything out on the lower grit stones, especially muddy ones, is to wipe the blade clean, sharpie the whole face of the blade, and then take it to your hardest stone and make several passes without building up a slurry. This will highlight any low spots that are remaining. If you can jump from a 200 grit to a 5k and it removes all the sharpie marks w/o a slurry, you know you've gotten rid of all the low spots and are ready for the next step.
 
Don't be disappointed if it takes you longer than just a couple sessions to get through the early stones. A helpful trick to see if you are getting everything out on the lower grit stones, especially muddy ones, is to wipe the blade clean, sharpie the whole face of the blade, and then take it to your hardest stone and make several passes without building up a slurry. This will highlight any low spots that are remaining. If you can jump from a 200 grit to a 5k and it removes all the sharpie marks w/o a slurry, you know you've gotten rid of all the low spots and are ready for the next step.

great tip.

Milan suggested a great tip where you use a 2k stone with your coarse stones; go one direction with the fine stone and another with the coarse. low spots will quickly reveal themselves to you.
 
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